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WEHRMACHT=RUBBISH

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7 Mar 2015, 20:18 PM
#61
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1378


Wehr players blob now?


Yea apparently, Wher players adopted OKW syndrome and started blobing Grens and PGs grens.
7 Mar 2015, 20:38 PM
#62
avatar of IIGuderian

Posts: 128

ok,but what if we just add one more man to a grenadier squad without changing any other thing?that way,grens get less fragile and no rework need to be done,right?
7 Mar 2015, 21:21 PM
#63
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2008 | Subs: 1

ok,but what if we just add one more man to a grenadier squad without changing any other thing?that way,grens get less fragile and no rework need to be done,right?


This would break gren vs conscript engagements.
7 Mar 2015, 21:54 PM
#64
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

if grens get 1 more man they also gain 80 health so cons would need to deal more dps to compensate and other units would need more health to compensate the cons ...
7 Mar 2015, 23:09 PM
#65
avatar of Madok

Posts: 101

My 2 cents:
Whermacht (at its core) is probably the best designed faction.
Despite some overlapping unit roles Wher has probably the most well-rounded core (non commander) unit selection.

BUT

The current call-in meta invalidates quite a lot of the core units mentioned above.
Additionally a lot of core units are hidden behind crippling tech costs (encouraging the call-in meta in the first place) - this is especially obvious if compared to the two newish factions.
Squadwipes are a problem as well, but the clumping behavior of units (needs a fix pretty badly) is kind of an equalizer as far as I am concerned.

EDIT:
We can bicker and rant about this units or that's unit performance or lack thereof all day but this is the bigger picture as far as I am concerned.
8 Mar 2015, 00:13 AM
#66
avatar of CasTroy

Posts: 559

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 16:11 PMALFA
In fact ostheer and soviet tanks are balanced in coh 2 except the panther.The problem is that german infantry is like a swiss knife and can attack everything once upgraded

Wehr Panther is fine! After countless patches from paper-tank to super-tank and back it is finally in an acceptable status since the patch of 09/09/14.

Our intent is to reposition the Panther as an effective counter to medium and heavy vehicles. It should be a dominating force when engaging in a frontal assault, but remain vulnerable when flanked from the rear.


Do with OKW Panther whatever you like. ;)
8 Mar 2015, 08:08 AM
#67
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300


Wehr Panther is fine! After countless patches from paper-tank to super-tank and back it is finally in an acceptable status since the patch of 09/09/14.



Do with OKW Panther whatever you like. ;)


except its not vulnerable when flanked because its borderline impossible to flank in general due to its general speed coupled with blitz......
8 Mar 2015, 12:22 PM
#68
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 21:54 PMChiro
if grens get 1 more man they also gain 80 health so cons would need to deal more dps to compensate and other units would need more health to compensate the cons ...


Nope u just have to reduce the dps per gren entity -> bigger squad -> more health -> can fight longer -> will even out the lost dps.
8 Mar 2015, 13:20 PM
#69
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Yea apparently, Wher players adopted OKW syndrome and started blobing Grens and PGs grens.


This isn't actually possible to do with the amount of MP you have.

Unless we are talking about blobbing oustruppen :snfPeter:

Do with OKW Panther whatever you like. ;)


The OKW Panther is actually worse than the Ostheer one (If only slightly), as it's a West German Panther.
8 Mar 2015, 13:22 PM
#70
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627



except its not vulnerable when flanked because its borderline impossible to flank in general due to its general speed coupled with blitz......


Worse than that, no side armour values exist.

The side armour of a panther, like the rear armour, was alarmingly thin- part of the reason the panther wasn't god awfully slow. Even the soviet's 45mm gun went clean through. A british 2pdr would go right through.

But nope! Not allowed that. That would make flanks rewarding and actually possible to pull off without engine damage.
8 Mar 2015, 13:23 PM
#71
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Adding realistic armor values isn't a road you want to go down, because while it would make tanks like the Panther worse, it would make allied tanks a lot, LOT worse.
8 Mar 2015, 13:34 PM
#72
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

Adding realistic armor values isn't a road you want to go down, because while it would make tanks like the Panther worse, it would make allied tanks a lot, LOT worse.


Really?

T34 wouldn't change.

KV1 wouldn't change.

IS-2 would change, but frankly the ways to deal with IS2's are a different issue that wouldn't change much.

American tanks already get penetrated by a strong breeze at any angle.

Who cares about the T-70 and the stuart.

Where, exactly, is the problem being introduced here?
8 Mar 2015, 13:39 PM
#73
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Really?

T34 wouldn't change.

KV1 wouldn't change.

IS-2 would change, but frankly the ways to deal with IS2's are a different issue that wouldn't change much.

American tanks already get penetrated by a strong breeze at any angle.

Who cares about the T-70 and the stuart.

Where, exactly, is the problem being introduced here?


T34/76 would get penned by StuG G every shot, StuG E would have a fair chance to pen most allied mediums. KV1 would die to a PIV Ausf J every time, T34/85's would die to a PIV/StuG every time.

All American tanks would have 0% chance to bounce basically any Axis hits, as opposed to having the ability to occasionally shrug off shots from StuG G's and PIV's.

T-70 and Stuart would die to small arms fire, the American open top TD's would die to small arms fire.

The only boost Allies would get is that the IS2 could pen any tank in the game, that's about it.

EDIT: So yeah if you want every game to be StuG spam than I guess it's a good idea.
8 Mar 2015, 13:45 PM
#74
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627



T34/76 would get penned by StuG G every shot, StuG E would have a fair chance to pen most allied mediums. KV1 would die to a PIV Ausf J every time, T34/85's would die to a PIV/StuG every time.

All American tanks would have 0% chance to bounce basically any Axis hits, as opposed to having the ability to occasionally shrug off shots from StuG G's and PIV's.

T-70 and Stuart would die to small arms fire, the American open top TD's would die to small arms fire.

The only boost Allies would get is that the IS2 could pen any tank in the game, that's about it.


Ahh, now we're introducing everything realistic all of a sudden, pretty large shift of the goal posts. But if you want.

If that's really what you want, we'll also have to replace the T-34-85 outright with the T-34-85 and the T-34-85 with the T-44. Also introduce the Pershing, the sherman dozer would become one of the most dangerous AT guns on the field (alongside the IS-2, still, and the ISU-152's HE shell becoming even more dangerous than it was at its peak), the T-70 and Stuart would die to heavy machine guns (not small arms), the american and OKW halftracks would become absolute bullet fodder, blah blah blah.

None of which I proposed.


I just proposed representative side armour values, to make flanking a more viable tactical option. Panther is one of the fastest tanks in game in a nod to its historical design. It also out ranged all other medium tanks and has the best front armour of any medium- side armour would go a long way to balancing it without the need to introduce nerfs to the vehicle which make the krauts cry.

I cannot think of a vehicle where a relative side armour value would be a problem for balance reasons, but feel free to siggest any you think it would affect.
8 Mar 2015, 13:50 PM
#75
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

The problem is that the Panther isn't a medium tank. It's also not a traditional MBT like most tanks in the game.

It's a Tank Hunter, it preforms shit versus infantry (and thus it's natural counter is AT guns) but it's good for hunting down and killing lone enemy tanks.

It's also a massive crutch for OKW who lacks anything smaller.
8 Mar 2015, 13:52 PM
#76
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

The problem is that the Panther isn't a medium tank. It's also not a traditional MBT like most tanks in the game.

It's a Tank Hunter, it preforms shit versus infantry (and thus it's natural counter is AT guns) but it's good for hunting down and killing lone enemy tanks.

It's also a massive crutch for OKW who lacks anything smaller.



And it's still perfectly possible to do the exact same job with just the same finesse with a side armour value.

But then over extending it has some chance of being punished without the futility of trying to get all he way behind the fastest medium in the game to have any chance of getting in good hits.
8 Mar 2015, 13:53 PM
#77
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1




And it's still perfectly possible to do the exact same job with just the same finesse with a side armour value.

But not over extending it has some chance of being punished without the futility of trying to get all he way behind the fastest medium in the game to have any chance of getting in good hits.


It's not a medium tank.
8 Mar 2015, 13:54 PM
#78
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

It's not a medium tank.


The panther is designated a medium tank. I'm not going to argue semantics for their own sake.

That's the classification, that's what I'm using, stop that.
8 Mar 2015, 13:57 PM
#79
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

The Panther was in that awkward spot between medium and heavy tank due to it's tonnage.

Panther: 44.8 tons

Tiger: 54 tons

T34: 26 tons.

The Panther weighs twice as much as the premier soviet medium tank. The Panther isn't in anyway similar to a medium tank except in the fact that it's fast and mobile.

It's in a class of it's own, it's (arguably) the only Tank Hunter in the game. And it's also bloody expensive.

The issue with the Panther is OKW players rushing it, not anything to do with the unit itself.
8 Mar 2015, 14:07 PM
#80
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

The Panther was in that awkward spot between medium and heavy tank due to it's tonnage.

Panther: 44.8 tons

Tiger: 54 tons

T34: 26 tons.

The Panther weighs twice as much as the premier soviet medium tank. The Panther isn't in anyway similar to a medium tank except in the fact that it's fast and mobile.

It's in a class of it's own, it's (arguably) the only Tank Hunter in the game. And it's also bloody expensive.

The issue with the Panther is OKW players rushing it, not anything to do with the unit itself.



By your definiation IS-2 is also a medium tank, since it weighs 46 tonnes.
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