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russian armor

WEHRMACHT=RUBBISH

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7 Mar 2015, 14:52 PM
#41
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1033

The IS-2's gun was easily on a par with the 88mm in terms of accuracy.

Here's an article detailing Soviet tests of the D-25T, you may question the source all you like, so long as you yourself have a source that disputes it.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/02/accuracy.html

Archive Awareness has a whole bunch of articles on various aspects on the IS-2 and related to dispelling the piling up myths that are rampant in WW2 online communities...

Here's another article detailing the effects of shells, be they HE or AP, on a Tiger II...

"Shot #1. Target: upper front plate. Shell: 122 mm HE-fragmentation.
Result: spalling across an area 300 mm by 300 mm. The welding seam between the upper front plate and the machine gun port burst on 3/4 of its circumference. Internal bolts holding the machine gun ball were torn off. The welding seam between the upper front plate and the right side burst, and the right side was displaced by 5 mm. The tank caught fire internally."

Here are those German welding seams, causing trouble again. If an enemy shell literally tears your tank apart without even penetrating it, that's bad news for you. The spalling and machine gun bolts flying around mean that the driver and radio operator would be dead..."

That's not good, especially when its the first shot with HE...

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/is-2-vs-german-big-cats.html

Finally, the fellows quoting German sources here saying how they've just destroyed an entire Soviet Tank army for no losses. Think about how many grains of salt you'd take when reading this combat report:
"Senior Lieutenant Makogonov's tank company destroyed and burned 17 Tiger tanks with direct hits. Of those, 8 were destroyed by Junior Lieutenant Pankov, 5 by Junior Lieutenant Pchelin, and 4 by platoon commander, Lieutenant Romashin"

Not saying whether its true or not, I'd want to find a German report to corroborate it, but it remains that its an interesting double standard you can have where you have every German report being taken as gospel, whilst every Soviet report is dismissed as propaganda or lies to impress higher ups.
Indeed, it's probably reasonable to assume that it was a lot easier for the Soviets to verify kills as they were advancing and so were able to study the battles which had been fought a lot better than the Germans who generally left those behind rather quickly...
Once again, not saying the report is true, but its about as reasonable as German reports out there as well...

7 Mar 2015, 15:16 PM
#42
avatar of IIGuderian

Posts: 128

YAY,i got a supporter
7 Mar 2015, 15:20 PM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 11:54 AMAffe
wall of text

If soviet tank run out of fuel or got stuck in the mud, it counted as a loss.
Germans counted a loss only if the scrap was unusable in combat and couldn't be repaired, soviets counted a loss if whatever happened, they would account a tank loss even way before it got to the actual battle and it wasn't corrected when the tank was operational again.
7 Mar 2015, 16:02 PM
#44
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 343



You seem to not know much about anything in regards to how these vehicles actually performed. Let me be a little clearer. The is2 could not penetrate the king tiger frontally, in a few situations where king tigers with poor quality alloys were used the frontal plate of a king tiger would eventually crack after a few hits. This has nothing to do with actual intended performance or faulty design. Its more to do with indirect means such as low resources for the german war effort. Do you also blame tanks for the countries inability to provide fuel for it as well?

Is2s did not penetrate king tiger tanks under normal circumstances. For gods sake learn a little something about ww2 before you try to argue balance in terms of historical nature.


Hey, captain Smartso, you forgot about the part where the KT's turret front (not the mantlet, the 'cheeks') is flat. Ergo, the IS-2 would quite happily wreck your shit with little effort.
7 Mar 2015, 16:05 PM
#45
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1378

How can you struggle so hard against Soviets playing as Wehrmacht? We had this game since 2013, you should know by now how to fight Soviets toe to toe. Soviets and Wehrmacht are well balanced against each other compare to USF and Wehrmacht.
7 Mar 2015, 16:10 PM
#46
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 16:02 PMVolsky
Hey, captain Smartso, you forgot about the part where the KT's turret front (not the mantlet, the 'cheeks') is flat. Ergo, the IS-2 would quite happily wreck your shit with little effort.


Or even more than that, the lack of any need to pen if they slap a HE shell at the turret front, which would fubar the gun, turret and turret crew.

Or the fact that the strength of the front armour relies heavily on its slope, and the IS-2 with a little bit of relative elevation is more than capable of throwing an APHEBC shell through the front plate.

Yada yada, people vastly over simplify tank combat in their heads and tanks are nowhere near as durable as people assume, broken record much.
7 Mar 2015, 16:11 PM
#47
avatar of ALFA

Posts: 6

In fact ostheer and soviet tanks are balanced in coh 2 except the panther.The problem is that german infantry is like a swiss knife and can attack everything once upgraded
7 Mar 2015, 16:15 PM
#48
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

It's entirely clear the historical discussions going on in this thread are going nowhere but downward. Just forget it, everyone.
7 Mar 2015, 16:15 PM
#49
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

The IS-2 at the last stage of having 240 damage was very AI oriented. It wiped squads, and using it against tanks was terrible as it often missed, and you had to get shot nearly twice in order to shoot again. I considered the reload increase and damage decrease a buff in its AT department.

Also, it seems to be the only Soviet tank that is undeniably stronger than its german counterpart (Tiger), So this derailed thread seems very amusing to me..
7 Mar 2015, 16:17 PM
#50
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 16:11 PMALFA
In fact ostheer and soviet tanks are balanced in coh 2 except the panther.The problem is that german infantry is like a swiss knife and can attack everything once upgraded


At least it's not late beta panther. Which had massive armour, drove super fast, had turbo blitz, and could out fight any soviet TD in the gam-

Oh wait it's exactly like the old panther that broke the beta, my bad.

At least soviet AT is almost passable these days, it almost makes up for it.
7 Mar 2015, 16:36 PM
#51
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6313 | Subs: 1

Look, another thread derailed into history vs balance :D

my suggestion is :
1.to put grens at T1,so its like cons or volks or rifleman,you can build it as the game strats.
2.increse the member of a single grens squad to 5,so its not so fragile.
3.increse the survibility and weapon damage of panzergrens,also raise price
4.decrease the fuel cost of tiger to 210 or make tiger capable of confronting is2
5.change the weapon upgrades of pg.pg now can upgrade to a single panzershrek for 75ammo or 4xSTG44 for 100ammo.


1-Sure

2-Nope. Easier said than done and it's not about just adjusting their DPS. I know WFA throw out the assymetrical balance we had till the moment, but messing up with OH base line infantry would mean also a rework on the DPS on the allies (specially SU).

3-DPS wise and survibility is fine. IMO they just need a retweak on their vet bonuses so the scaling between vet0 and vet2 is not as drastic.

4-IS2 is better AT wise, Tiger is better AI. TTK between each other is not as different 64.41s± vs 59.69±
IS2 has an edge of 2.8s at far and at near 6.3s.
AT Guns: they have exactly the same TTK, only difference is that you have TwP to win you the battle.
Infantry AT: well...PTRS (doctrinal) + AT nades vs Faust + Shrecks

5-1 shreck would be useless since they can't be spammable as Volks and i fail the point of giving them Kars. At that point, no one would get them if they have to spend 100muni. Just get more LMG grens.
7 Mar 2015, 16:52 PM
#52
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 670

I compared stats for IS-2 and Tiger and I don't understand why the Tiger is clearly inferior for the same cost. A bit faster reload for Tiger but that's it. The rest is equal or worse.
7 Mar 2015, 17:03 PM
#53
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 906



At least it's not late beta panther. Which had massive armour, drove super fast, had turbo blitz, and could out fight any soviet TD in the gam-
Holy shit! It´s almost like that old Panther performed and played like a fucking Panther.

Through constant nagging we even went to a previous patch where the Panther was totally useless. That really pisses me off.
7 Mar 2015, 17:05 PM
#54
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 906

I compared stats for IS-2 and Tiger and I don't understand why the Tiger is clearly inferior for the same cost. A bit faster reload for Tiger but that's it. The rest is equal or worse.
It annihilates infantry. No need for the Tiger to fire faster. If at all it needs some health. As soon as a Jackson farts, it´s going down.
7 Mar 2015, 17:52 PM
#55
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

How can you struggle so hard against Soviets playing as Wehrmacht? We had this game since 2013, you should know by now how to fight Soviets toe to toe. Soviets and Wehrmacht are well balanced against each other compare to USF and Wehrmacht.


Maybe all the Axis player lost their skill while blobbing volks and obers?
7 Mar 2015, 18:46 PM
#56
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6313 | Subs: 1

I compared stats for IS-2 and Tiger and I don't understand why the Tiger is clearly inferior for the same cost. A bit faster reload for Tiger but that's it. The rest is equal or worse.


This is one of the most balanced states we had between IS2 and Tiger.
If you really compared the stats by stats you would had seen that you have better RoF, scatter, vet 1 ability and your Hull + Coaxial has better DPS.
7 Mar 2015, 19:23 PM
#57
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Donator 11

Posts: 3040 | Subs: 14

Holy shit! It´s almost like that old Panther performed and played like a fucking Panther.

Through constant nagging we even went to a previous patch where the Panther was totally useless. That really pisses me off.



Well it WAS OP at the time against what it was facing.

The heaviest thing it had to deal with was SU85s,and shitty AT guns that did shit damage and penetration.

I think this was back when it could blitz with engine damage too so mines were hit and miss counter as well.

was also cheap as dirt at 145-165ish fuel?

Now i guess it would be put in check by USF medium tank/destroyers and mines but even then...
7 Mar 2015, 19:59 PM
#58
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 17:52 PMofield


Maybe all the Axis player lost their skill while blobbing volks and obers?

Wehr players blob now?
7 Mar 2015, 19:59 PM
#59
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2015, 17:52 PMofield


Maybe all the Axis player lost their skill while blobbing volks and obers?

Wehr players blob now?
7 Mar 2015, 20:11 PM
#60
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10622 | Subs: 9

Wheeeeeeeeh... let's stay (reasonably) friendly with each other, please? :)
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