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12 Mar 2015, 23:53 PM
#221
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



I really hope this post is sarcastic.

Yeah, all go call in planes with no tanks and only Ostheer infantry, this can only end well :snfQuinn:


Pz4 spam, Panthers.

Here you have only 2 OST players but I asure you that planes crashes killed more units than all axis players.






The only army in the game with flexibility is Soviets because of the commander system. You can drastically vary your play style based on what commander you chose.



Soviets are the least flexible army because of commanders, not most flexible.
Soviets commanders fill the gaps. You need them to stand against Axis.
On the other hand, OKW does not need any commander in fact.
In tiers you have everything you need, and commaders give you something extra. That's flexibility. You can make AI units and then Pak43.

If you choose wrong doctrine as Soviets you are doomed, so where is this flexibility?

Ostheer is flexible faction as well. You need mortar? pak? sniper? 222? No problem you will have access to all of them.

You need sniper? Zis? Maxim? M3? Stop right there, you can't have everything. SO where is this flexibility?

Same for USF. You must chose between AA, MG, mines and zooks, light tank and AT gun. There is no flexibility for allies.
12 Mar 2015, 23:55 PM
#222
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1



Not if alex does not get offended by it


I'd take issue with people not getting offended by it, I saw no value to it whatsoever since I did not find it neither funny nor witty, just demeaning toward choices women can make.
13 Mar 2015, 00:16 AM
#223
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Pz4 spam, Panthers.

Here you have only 2 OST players but I asure you that planes crashes killed more units than all axis players.







Soviets are the least flexible army because of commanders, not most flexible.
Soviets commanders fill the gaps. You need them to stand against Axis.
On the other hand, OKW does not need any commander in fact.
In tiers you have everything you need, and commaders give you something extra. That's flexibility. You can make AI units and then Pak43.

If you choose wrong doctrine as Soviets you are doomed, so where is this flexibility?

Ostheer is flexible faction as well. You need mortar? pak? sniper? 222? No problem you will have access to all of them.

You need sniper? Zis? Maxim? M3? Stop right there, you can't have everything. SO where is this flexibility?

Same for USF. You must chose between AA, MG, mines and zooks, light tank and AT gun. There is no flexibility for allies.


OKW and USF are both 1 trick wonders with a tiny bit of variation here and there. Ostheer has SOME options with call in meta trickery but they are still stuck with just grens.

Soviets get 2 starting infantry units (3 if you count the sniper) that are viable, then you have elite infantry on top of that. Then you have the call in tanks which vary commander to commander. Getting tech is not mandatory because you have everything you need in T0 and T2 plus a elite unit from your commander to get by till call in fun times.

The shear amount of variation between the units is fun for me, getting 4 Volks or 6 Rifleman because I can't make anything else isn't. Nor is sitting and twiddling my thumbs as Ostheer because I'm being MP drained like crazy.

Commander choice liberates you, it doesn't bind you. When your commanders effectively do nothing but give you utility than your play style remains mostly the same no matter what commander you pick.

Really the most interesting combo Iv found is Sturmtiger + Command Panther so my Sturmtiger can sight for itself.

EDIT: Just noticed you legit actually said Panzer IV spam, holy fuck my sides have entered low orbit. PLEASE spam PIV's against my IS2's/ISU's and Jacksons. And have fun with that teching for Panther spam :D
13 Mar 2015, 05:52 AM
#224
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


OKW and USF are both 1 trick wonders


Ost has the most variety of every faction

inb4 u reply with BS scenarios and theory craft have allies have better positioning and yada yada yada...
13 Mar 2015, 05:55 AM
#225
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Ost has the most variety of every faction

inb4 u reply with BS scenarios and theory craft have allies have better positioning and yada yada yada...


OKW and USF lack support weapons teams, so it's most just two hordes of infantry charging into each other. And the Ostheer support weapons are fragile and expensive (but good, you do need to use combined arms).

With soviets my army will always be extremely diverse, a combination of support weapons 2 infantry classes support by Engineers. It's something you don't see with any other faction.

13 Mar 2015, 07:38 AM
#226
avatar of Jorad

Posts: 209

Can this debate go back on track, and for the love of God not all USF players BLOB with Paras and 1919 Rifleman, so please remember that and stop this stupid BLOB VS BLOB debate.
13 Mar 2015, 08:03 AM
#227
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



OKW and USF are both 1 trick wonders with a tiny bit of variation here and there. Ostheer has SOME options with call in meta trickery but they are still stuck with just grens.

Soviets get 2 starting infantry units (3 if you count the sniper) that are viable, then you have elite infantry on top of that. Then you have the call in tanks which vary commander to commander. Getting tech is not mandatory because you have everything you need in T0 and T2 plus a elite unit from your commander to get by till call in fun times.

The shear amount of variation between the units is fun for me, getting 4 Volks or 6 Rifleman because I can't make anything else isn't. Nor is sitting and twiddling my thumbs as Ostheer because I'm being MP drained like crazy.

Commander choice liberates you, it doesn't bind you. When your commanders effectively do nothing but give you utility than your play style remains mostly the same no matter what commander you pick.

Really the most interesting combo Iv found is Sturmtiger + Command Panther so my Sturmtiger can sight for itself.

EDIT: Just noticed you legit actually said Panzer IV spam, holy fuck my sides have entered low orbit. PLEASE spam PIV's against my IS2's/ISU's and Jacksons. And have fun with that teching for Panther spam :D


What you described has nothing to do with flexibility.
Flexibility is ability to adapt to situation on the battlefield which OKW and OST do the best.
End of story.
T1 soviets - no AT gun.
USF AT mines? No AT gun.
Variation of units is just variation, not flexibility.


Well, if your micro can't handle with coordination of 4 tanks at once, I feel sorry for you.
But in hands of a quite good player 4 Pz4 are more deadly than Tiger or Elephant.
Same for T34. I have in loadout doctrines without ISU, IS, T34/85, only T34/76 spam and guess what, it's damn deadly. It's way easier to deal with 1 huge target like IS2, than with few smaller coming from all sides.
But if you can't handle IS2, ISU, T34/85, Tiger, Elephnat, Panther meta, that's your problem.
I break meta very often and Im quite susscefull with this

Have not use any call in in 4v2 for 2 weeks as soviets - all wins. It's all about micro rather than A-move with IS2, and my 6-8 T34/76 are always more devastating than 2 IS2s.
13 Mar 2015, 08:16 AM
#228
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



What you described has nothing to do with flexibility.
Flexibility is ability to adapt to situation on the battlefield which OKW and OST do the best.
End of story.
T1 soviets - no AT gun.
USF AT mines? No AT gun.
Variation of units is just variation, not flexibility.


Well, if your micro can't handle with coordination of 4 tanks at once, I feel sorry for you.
But in hands of a quite good player 4 Pz4 are more deadly than Tiger or Elephant.
Same for T34. I have in loadout doctrines without ISU, IS, T34/85, only T34/76 spam and guess what, it's damn deadly. It's way easier to deal with 1 huge target like IS2, than with few smaller coming from all sides.
But if you can't handle IS2, ISU, T34/85, Tiger, Elephnat, Panther meta, that's your problem.
I break meta very often and Im quite susscefull with this

Have not use any call in in 4v2 for 2 weeks as soviets - all wins. It's all about micro rather than A-move with IS2, and my 6-8 T34/76 are always more devastating than 2 IS2s.


It's not a matter of micro, but your PIV's are going to get raped HARD when facing Jacksons and IS2/T34/85s. You need the Elefant to break up enemy armor units like the ISU and IS2 because your dinky little PIV's aren't going to do shit to his 122mm gun and 375 frontal armor IS2.

6 T34's are overwhelming, but fuck if your ever going to get that in anything lower than 4's, and if can micro their heavies your T34's are going to be sitting in the scrap heap.

Soviets have a buttload of variation in what toys/strats they have to play with that are viable, so what if you don't have an AT gun in t1? If your doing call in trickery go t1 - t2 and wait for support. Or just go t2 and get support weapons that you back up with cons/shocks, get a guard or two sometimes to deal with OKW light vehicles.

You can break away from the meta, but someone who knows how to counter you will pistol whip you with better micro and unit choice.
13 Mar 2015, 08:49 AM
#229
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



It's not a matter of micro, but your PIV's are going to get raped HARD when facing Jacksons and IS2/T34/85s. You need the Elefant to break up enemy armor units like the ISU and IS2 because your dinky little PIV's aren't going to do shit to his 122mm gun and 375 frontal armor IS2.

6 T34's are overwhelming, but fuck if your ever going to get that in anything lower than 4's, and if can micro their heavies your T34's are going to be sitting in the scrap heap.

Soviets have a buttload of variation in what toys/strats they have to play with that are viable, so what if you don't have an AT gun in t1? If your doing call in trickery go t1 - t2 and wait for support. Or just go t2 and get support weapons that you back up with cons/shocks, get a guard or two sometimes to deal with OKW light vehicles.

You can break away from the meta, but someone who knows how to counter you will pistol whip you with better micro and unit choice.



And that's what I was talking about. Jackson/IS2/ISU/T3485? Only Elephant. That's your answer, and it's very good answer but ont the only one.
Pak43+Pz4, Pz4 +Paks40, Pz4+JU strike can do the job as well but such counter is not braindead like Elephant. Such counter is micro intensive but still very good.

6 through whole game, but still in 1v1 Im able to get 4 at once so 6 in 4v4 is not something uncommon.

You still dont understand what flexibility means.
It means that no matter what, I have units to adapt to situation.
For example, if go T2+T3 you cant adapt to situation when sniper is needed.

If you spam Grens, but then you need MG, minute later mortar, then 222 and go back for sniper and you can all of this, that's flexibility.
13 Mar 2015, 08:58 AM
#230
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1




And that's what I was talking about. Jackson/IS2/ISU/T3485? Only Elephant. That's your answer, and it's very good answer but ont the only one.
Pak43+Pz4, Pz4 +Paks40, Pz4+JU strike can do the job as well but such counter is not braindead like Elephant. Such counter is micro intensive but still very good.

6 through whole game, but still in 1v1 Im able to get 4 at once so 6 in 4v4 is not something uncommon.

You still dont understand what flexibility means.
It means that no matter what, I have units to adapt to situation.
For example, if go T2+T3 you cant adapt to situation when sniper is needed.

If you spam Grens, but then you need MG, minute later mortar, then 222 and go back for sniper and you can all of this, that's flexibility.


My answer is Pak40's and good micro, with an Elefant for seasoning. If I went Oustruppen your little medium tank squad would get annihilated because the minute you got close to me you would be hit by 6 fausts and then finished off with a Pak gun. Volks? I'll just split my squads and alpha each tank as it enters my line of sight, then shove a Panther right up your ass because you don't have anything to deal with it.

With Ostheer you can get units sure, but your using combined arms and the same units every game because that is literally all you have. You have no elite infantry, no higher caliber mortar, no call in mediums worth a shit.

And 222/sniper? Pthhh good joke.

EDIT: 6 through the whole game? What is one lone T34 or two T34's going to do? Angrily shake their fists at my Paks/tellers/Oustruppen?
13 Mar 2015, 09:03 AM
#231
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



My answer is Pak40's and good micro, with an Elefant for seasoning. If I went Oustruppen your little medium tank squad would get annihilated because the minute you got close to me you would be hit by 6 fausts and then finished off with a Pak gun. Volks? I'll just split my squads and alpha each tank as it enters my line of sight, then shove a Panther right up your ass because you don't have anything to deal with it.

With Ostheer you can get units sure, but your using combined arms and the same units every game because that is literally all you have. You have no elite infantry, no higher caliber mortar, no call in mediums worth a shit.

And 222/sniper? Pthhh good joke.

EDIT: 6 through the whole game? What is one lone T34 or two T34's going to do? Angrily shake their fists at my Paks/tellers/Oustruppen?


I'm done. You think that someone will strike like a brianless stragith into paks? I could also say that Panther will go down farily quickly when strike my T34s but that's not gonna happen cause no one will move Panther alone like no one will strike with T34 straight into fog without knowing what's there.

And 2 T34 can deal with a Panther when someone overrun Panther into trap.

PS
You do realize than 90%+ cases (tes rest are cases when Sierra or Jaigen agrees with you so...) no one agrees with you? So now you have to answer yourself. Is this community wrong or it is something with you?
13 Mar 2015, 09:06 AM
#232
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I'm done. You think that someone will strike like a brianless stragith into paks? I could also say that Panther will go down farily quickly when strike my T34s but that's not gonna happen cause no one will move Panther alone like no one will strike with T34 straight into fog without knowing what's there.

And 2 T34 can deal with a Panther when someone overrun Panther into trap.


So what are you T34's going to do then? Because I have tellers on my flanks so your not going to have the element of surprise cause your going to need a sweeper, or to stop and fire at cut off points to make sure there isn't a mine there.

Pardon me if I'm confused by someone unironically claiming that T34's are at all not a joke versus a competent player when anything bigger than it hit's the field.

You make all these insane statements and then back them up with nothing, no numbers, no math, no logic just "I think, therefore, I'm right"
13 Mar 2015, 09:08 AM
#233
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Pah, nobody agrees with me? I agree with 90% of the people on this forum but because I don't want to see OKW ironed into a copy of the worst preforming faction in the game I'm an ~axis fanboy~.

Schwer penning mediums is BS, and so are Ober's.
13 Mar 2015, 09:11 AM
#234
avatar of Jorad

Posts: 209

Pah, nobody agrees with me? I agree with 90% of the people on this forum but because I don't want to see OKW ironed into a copy of the worst preforming faction in the game I'm an ~axis fanboy~.
Schwer penning mediums is BS, and so are Ober's.

No one knows what is your point. Australian breaks the boring and stupid meta (for me META is the one and only thing that kills video games and creativity what so ever) and you bash him for doing so! Why tell me Why?
13 Mar 2015, 09:11 AM
#235
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



So what are you T34's going to do then? Because I have tellers on my flanks so your not going to have the element of surprise cause your going to need a sweeper, or to stop and fire at cut off points to make sure there isn't a mine there.

Pardon me if I'm confused by someone unironically claiming that T34's are at all not a joke versus a competent player when anything bigger than it hit's the field.

You make all these insane statements and then back them up with nothing, no numbers, no math, no logic just "I think, therefore, I'm right"


Fuck me. I swear this is the last post.
You expect better number from T34 than IS2? Or what?
Sweepers are not the problem.

I found it just for you.



T34s vs Schrecks and King Tiger.
Enjoy and stop talking pudding that T34 are useless because in hands of someone who uses them in A-Move like IS2 they are useless when when used right they are deadly.

Did I mention that Paks are usless when I use incendiary strike?
13 Mar 2015, 09:14 AM
#236
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned

Ostheer support weapons are fragile and expensive



Sigh

there you go again

They are neither expensive or fragile
13 Mar 2015, 09:24 AM
#237
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Sigh

there you go again

They are neither expensive or fragile


Easier to kill, more expensive to reinforce.

6 men > 4 men. USF has this same issue.

Fuck me. I swear this is the last post.
You expect better number from T34 than IS2? Or what?
Sweepers are not the problem.

I found it just for you.


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T34s vs Schrecks and King Tiger.
Enjoy and stop talking pudding that T34 are useless because in hands of someone who uses them in A-Move like IS2 they are useless when when used right they are deadly.

Did I mention that Paks are usless when I use incendiary strike?



Iv watched this already but the dude (as in assbags opponent) played like an idiot from the start. Good micro on any unit will get you far.

I applaud your ability to break the meta, oh wait, I applaud Assbags way to break the meta because this replay had zero relevance to your assertion other than T34's can do good when microd, which I never said was impossible.

The issue here is that T34's drop off hard in usefulness in higher game modes and they need to be massed to be effective.
13 Mar 2015, 09:31 AM
#238
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521



Easier to kill, more expensive to reinforce.

6 men > 4 men. USF has this same issue.




Iv watched this already but the dude (as in assbags opponent) played like an idiot from the start. Good micro on any unit will get you far.

I applaud your ability to break the meta, oh wait, I applaud Assbags way to break the meta because this replay had zero relevance to your assertion other than T34's can do good when microd, which I never said was impossible.

The issue here is that T34's drop off hard in usefulness in higher game modes and they need to be massed to be effective.


What the hell is going on here? Is it opposite day? Alex is finally speaking sense and people are going LOL T-34 DOESN'T SUCK IN TEAMGAMES on him?

T-34/76 is utterly inadequate 2v2 and above.

Edit: Unless you mean T-34/85. Then you still sort of have a point in that its a slightly better Panzer IV and spams of it isn't much more effective than PzIV spams except for tech cost, but that's call-in mechanic's problem.
13 Mar 2015, 09:33 AM
#239
avatar of Jorad

Posts: 209



What the hell is going on here? Is it opposite day? Alex is finally speaking sense and people are going LOL T-34 DOESN'T SUCK IN TEAMGAMES on him?

T-34/76 is utterly inadequate 2v2 and above.

Alex is just defending his heavy tanks and a-move gameplay and this corrupted META.
13 Mar 2015, 09:42 AM
#240
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2015, 09:33 AMJorad

Alex is just defending his heavy tanks and a-move gameplay and this corrupted META.


How is saying the IS2 shouldn't move at literal walking pace "defending heavy tanks" and if you ever watched a replay of mine I don't ever do A-move BS.
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