Login

russian armor

WEHRMACHT=RUBBISH

  • This thread is locked
PAGES (15)down
12 Mar 2015, 16:27 PM
#181
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 16:06 PMKatitof

Teller mines, TWP on PaKs, even on StuG-G and no, IS-2 doesn't reliably wipe infantry or PaKs, out of all tanks only T34 is worse against infantry then IS-2.

All factions use different means to fight off heavy armor, 3 of them have 60 range TDs, 3 of them have potent AT guns, 3 of them have handheld AT that works more or less and so on.

Raw firepower isn't the only way to deal with heavies, which every soviet player can tell you from the first day of CoH2 and ost definitely does not lack in variety of non doctrinal options to deal with heavies.

And who talks anything about ost panther?
If anything, OKW one arrives way too fast.

No offence man, but your lack of actual playing time warps your perceptions here again. IS-2 might not reliably oneshot Paks, but it decimates them and all infantry if not with the main gun than with the DSHK. Ostheer, in practical terms, has no truly effective means to deal with ie. an IS-2/ISU outside of its own, doctrinal heavy armour, especially the Elephant. Barring that, the Tiger can function to anchor your Pak line, soak up damage, and kill infantry, but Pak/Tiger on ZiS/IS-2 fights almost always end in the Soviet favour in the long run since they simply have better survivability and better means to kill the opposing AT guns. TWP is a strong ability obviously, but its nowhere near enough to put that fight on an even footing. BTDT and bought the t-shirt too often. The OH Panther, while indeed nondoctrinal, is a noshow in 1v1 anyways.
12 Mar 2015, 16:36 PM
#182
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



They did nerf the penetration and just saying they didn't doesn't make it true. It used to be that you could kill a sherman fairly quickly, but it was nerfed to were you could do damage and then back out, repair, and come in and do damage again.

See, the problem with you Is I don't think you actually know what you want, you want the Schwer removed so OKW can't lock down an fuel or a cut off (claiming that such a need is out dated), but then you want to get rid of the units in the Schwer that people want like the luchs and panther.

The timing you also bring out in your posts is also insane, because you assume a perfect scenario in timing, and not to mention the fact that a Jadgpanzer + Puma is such an insandely retarded combination that it blows my mind you think because you can do it then everything for OKW would be peaches and cream if they had no fuel or Schwer.

And I can't actually look up the repair time on Ass Engines versus RE's (and if you do know were I can find said repair times that would be wonderful).



If your opponent rushes a Panther he's not going to be able to do shit about your infantry, so go hog wild with a blob supported by AT guns. At max fuel income at 23 fuel it takes 11 minutes to get a Schwer + Panther and that's assume absolutely optimal conditions.

EDIT: And if you think your magically going to stop a blob with Fuss or Jaegar well, your in for a nasty surprise.


Just :lol:

Where I said I want to remove Panther? :lol: :lol:

Schwerer should get MG, that's all.

I dont assume perfect timing. 11min Jadgpanzer or 16min Panther is something quite common.

And why Puma+jadgpanzer is a bad combination?
Puma to counter early-mid game vehicles and then Jadgpanzer to counter everything.
But.. Im assuming perfect timing, so what about your Major faster than Schwerer? Isnt it assuming perfect timing without M20 or AA?

The part abour AE and RE is just amazing. First you ve said that AE repair faster but now you are saying that you dont have a numbers? :lol:

Rusing Panther = 2 Obers squads before, which melt infantry so I dont see how OKW can do a pudding agasint blob since OKW blob is the most powerful.
12 Mar 2015, 16:54 PM
#183
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Just :lol:

Where I said I want to remove Panther? :lol: :lol:

Schwerer should get MG, that's all.

I dont assume perfect timing. 11min Jadgpanzer or 16min Panther is something quite common.

And why Puma+jadgpanzer is a bad combination?
Puma to counter early-mid game vehicles and then Jadgpanzer to counter everything.
But.. Im assuming perfect timing, so what about your Major faster than Schwerer? Isnt it assuming perfect timing without M20 or AA?

The part abour AE and RE is just amazing. First you ve said that AE repair faster but now you are saying that you dont have a numbers? :lol:

Rusing Panther = 2 Obers squads before, which melt infantry so I dont see how OKW can do a pudding agasint blob since OKW blob is the most powerful.


The Puma and Jadgpanzer is a terrible combination, mostly because your not going to have any counter to heavy tanks or massed mediums, or infantry hordes. The Puma's viabilty in any mode higher than 1's falls off hard as the game progresses because the shear amount of infantry AT on the field, and then the Jadgpanzer is only 40 fuel cheaper than the Panther but significantly worse in the mobility department.

Your assuming perfect timing, or just pulling minutes out of your ass because it takes 11 minutes at 23 fuel per minute to get enough for a Schwer and Panther, and 23 fuel is pretty fucking optimal. But nobody ever builds their first HQ the minute it hits the field, and rushing a Panther to deal with no allied armor is silly when shreks exist.

And if your making 2 Obers before your delaying your Panther pretty heavily, since if your getting MP drained then spending 800 MP is a pretty huge investment, and if you want to float that much MP your implying you spend no MP on BG HQ retreat point and got very few volks.

The Schwer should get an MG? Why not just make the flak cannon not pen medium tanks?
12 Mar 2015, 16:57 PM
#184
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

No offence man, but your lack of actual playing time warps your perceptions here again. IS-2 might not reliably oneshot Paks, but it decimates them and all infantry if not with the main gun than with the DSHK. Ostheer, in practical terms, has no truly effective means to deal with ie. an IS-2/ISU outside of its own, doctrinal heavy armour, especially the Elephant. Barring that, the Tiger can function to anchor your Pak line, soak up damage, and kill infantry, but Pak/Tiger on ZiS/IS-2 fights almost always end in the Soviet favour in the long run since they simply have better survivability and better means to kill the opposing AT guns. TWP is a strong ability obviously, but its nowhere near enough to put that fight on an even footing. BTDT and bought the t-shirt too often. The OH Panther, while indeed nondoctrinal, is a noshow in 1v1 anyways.


The large AoE on the IS2's shells make wiping PaK crews fairly trivial. These days the Elefant is a much better investment in any mode higher than 1v1 and maybe 2v2 than a Tiger.

Not to mention Katitof ignored that the fact the ZiS has only 10 less pen at all ranges than the Pak40 but much more utility.
12 Mar 2015, 17:03 PM
#185
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



The Puma and Jadgpanzer is a terrible combination, mostly because your not going to have any counter to heavy tanks or massed mediums, or infantry hordes. The Puma's viabilty in any mode higher than 1's falls off hard as the game progresses because the shear amount of infantry AT on the field, and then the Jadgpanzer is only 40 fuel cheaper than the Panther but significantly worse in the mobility department.

Your assuming perfect timing, or just pulling minutes out of your ass because it takes 11 minutes at 23 fuel per minute to get enough for a Schwer and Panther, and 23 fuel is pretty fucking optimal. But nobody ever builds their first HQ the minute it hits the field, and rushing a Panther to deal with no allied armor is silly when shreks exist.

And if your making 2 Obers before your delaying your Panther pretty heavily, since if your getting MP drained then spending 800 MP is a pretty huge investment, and if you want to float that much MP your implying you spend no MP on BG HQ retreat point and got very few volks.

The Schwer should get an MG? Why not just make the flak cannon not pen medium tanks?


Jadpanzer can deal with everything except ISU.
Puma is very good vs Sherman or T34.
Add few Volks and none medium spam will scare you.

You are not playing 1v1s so please, dont talk about timing in 1v1.
Panther can hit the field 2-3mins after first Sherman when rushed.

If you are floating 700MP when Schwerer is ready, but you still need 150 fuel for Panther, 2 Obers won't delay anything. In fact they will speed it up since double Obers own everything and you might get 2 fuels.

Keep nerfed flak? Even MG negates capping which CoH2 is all about.


I just love like you are skipping parts with no answer like right now repairs speed, and before engineers, capping, removing Panther and many many others in many many threads.
12 Mar 2015, 17:21 PM
#186
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Jadpanzer can deal with everything except ISU.
Puma is very good vs Sherman or T34.
Add few Volks and none medium spam will scare you.

You are not playing 1v1s so please, dont talk about timing in 1v1.
Panther can hit the field 2-3mins after first Sherman when rushed.

If you are floating 700MP when Schwerer is ready, but you still need 150 fuel for Panther, 2 Obers won't delay anything. In fact they will speed it up since double Obers own everything and you might get 2 fuels.

Keep nerfed flak? Even MG negates capping which CoH2 is all about.


I just love like you are skipping parts with no answer like right now repairs speed, and before engineers, capping, removing Panther and many many others in many many threads.


You need 175 fuel, the Jadgpanzer is the least mobile medium TD in the game (and it can't sight for itself either). The Puma isn't very good versus shermans or T34's and people who think it is either don't understand penetration values or they don't understand shermans and T34 tend to have things around them that are harmful to Puma's.

I'm not talking about 1v1, I'm talking about blood any game mode were your not making fuel caches. 2v2 is quite similar, your not going to have a 16 minute Panther with out gimping yourself.

And medium spam can shit all over volks if you understand the barest amounts of how to micro tanks like crushing and reversing, not to mention just putting your 1919/BAR rifle men in front of you shermans or your shocks in front of your T34's.

And I didn't "skip" anything, In my experience (which isn't much because I don't use Ass engines that often) they did better than RE's, pardon my mistake, but I'm not going to spend the next 10 posts bitching about your poor understanding of unit timing or unit costs.

and "MG's negating what coh2 is about" are you sad you can't blob with rifles because suppression exists? Shall we take away bunkers and fighting positions to? What about mine fields?
12 Mar 2015, 18:23 PM
#187
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Jadpanzer can deal with everything except ISU.
Puma is very good vs Sherman or T34.
.


No they cannot deal with the i2 and neither can the tiger or the panther. its more of an issue that the is has way to much armour for its price and less weaknesses then the KT
12 Mar 2015, 18:33 PM
#188
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 18:23 PMJaigen


No they cannot deal with the i2 and neither can the tiger or the panther. its more of an issue that the is has way to much armour for its price and less weaknesses then the KT


asymmetrical balance lrn2flank
12 Mar 2015, 18:35 PM
#189
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 14613 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 18:23 PMJaigen


No they cannot deal with the i2 and neither can the tiger or the panther. its more of an issue that the is has way to much armour for its price and less weaknesses then the KT

You have no slightest idea what you are talking about here.
And if you are serious, you should be constantly spamming forums for KT nerfs first because allied AT is weaker and KT got more armor and health, the only disadvantage, speed is completely nullified by vet1 and it completely obliterates armor and infantry in much shorter and more reliable matter then tiger and IS-2 and panther put together.

If you expect to stop IS-2 with a single source of AT you are equally naive as allies expecting to stop tiger with single jackson or SU-85.
12 Mar 2015, 18:40 PM
#190
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2


and "MG's negating what coh2 is about" are you sad you can't blob with rifles because suppression exists? Shall we take away bunkers and fighting positions to? What about mine fields?


Are you really that dumb?....

Flak (or even MG if there would be one) on the top of schwerer is negating what coh2 is all about.

Single MG or bunker is something completly different that Schwerer.
12 Mar 2015, 19:06 PM
#191
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Are you really that dumb?....

Flak (or even MG if there would be one) on the top of schwerer is negating what coh2 is all about.

Single MG or bunker is something completly different that Schwerer.


The only difference between an MG on a Schwer and a FP/Bunker is the arc of fire and the health of the building.

If the Schwer lost the ability to pen medium armor, then what exactly would your grief still be? You say it negates what COH2 is about, but the Schwer sure as hell isn't free, it's vulnerable while setting up, and it can die to explosive weapons the same as a bunker/FP.

COH2 is about unit positioning and micro, and intelligent Schwer placement is part of that. If a person is aggressive and cuts you off with a Schwer that's hard to kill because it's behind a shot blocker then he did a smart thing and should be rewarded for it.
12 Mar 2015, 19:16 PM
#192
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



The only difference between an MG on a Schwer and a FP/Bunker is the arc of fire and the health of the building.

If the Schwer lost the ability to pen medium armor, then what exactly would your grief still be? You say it negates what COH2 is about, but the Schwer sure as hell isn't free, it's vulnerable while setting up, and it can die to explosive weapons the same as a bunker/FP.

COH2 is about unit positioning and micro, and intelligent Schwer placement is part of that. If a person is aggressive and cuts you off with a Schwer that's hard to kill because it's behind a shot blocker then he did a smart thing and should be rewarded for it.


Difference is that you can smoke bunker and go around or kill it very quick with mortar or AT gun. Smoking MG on Schwerer means nowthing since in can tour 360 and it takes quite long to kill with single unit.
12 Mar 2015, 19:41 PM
#193
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

More OKW shit in wehrmacht thread as usual.Allied posters just need the excuse.OKW is responsible for wehrmacht's problems,not.
12 Mar 2015, 19:46 PM
#194
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Difference is that you can smoke bunker and go around or kill it very quick with mortar or AT gun. Smoking MG on Schwerer means nowthing since in can tour 360 and it takes quite long to kill with single unit.


That is because bunkers do not cost 80 fuel my friend!
12 Mar 2015, 20:33 PM
#195
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2



That is because bunkers do not cost 80 fuel my friend!

You know, soviet's T3 and T4 cost 120 fuel and I didn't noticed them doing that kind of pudding.
12 Mar 2015, 20:39 PM
#196
avatar of Glendizzle

Posts: 149

I think we can all agree that okw has its own set of odd stuff that seems counter to the way vanilla factions are played.

Wehrmacht has problems mostly because they are way behind on mp due to teching. How that can be solved is up for debate. They also suffer from the mg42 not being as kick ass as an mg42 ought to. German infantry play revolves entirely around the mg42. You need it to slow the allied infantry for your grenadiers/mortar to chew them up. Currently it does not do that as effectively as it should. Beyond that, the 221/222 sucks. It needs more armor so it doesn't die in a stiff breeze and also enough dps to kill a damn sniper. I can't say how many snipers I've chased all the way back to their base to only kill one model. I personally think that the stug needs a more defined role. It's a shitty generalist that you buy when you want a p4 and don't have the fuel and can't wait. Make it a 50 range td and I'm happy. Aside from those issues I think everything is fine/great.
12 Mar 2015, 20:40 PM
#197
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1


You know, soviet's T3 and T4 cost 120 fuel and I didn't noticed them doing that kind of pudding.


I don't think anyone believes that Soviet teching is in a good place right now.

Relic isn't going to remove the Schwer from the game, nor are they going to get rid of the Flak Cannon. A much more reasonable suggestion is just reducing the pen so it can only kill infantry and light vehicles, not medium tanks.

EDIT: Christ you haven't even played OKW once.
12 Mar 2015, 21:32 PM
#198
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 18:35 PMKatitof

You have no slightest idea what you are talking about here.
And if you are serious, you should be constantly spamming forums for KT nerfs first because allied AT is weaker and KT got more armor and health, the only disadvantage, speed is completely nullified by vet1 and it completely obliterates armor and infantry in much shorter and more reliable matter then tiger and IS-2 and panther put together.

If you expect to stop IS-2 with a single source of AT you are equally naive as allies expecting to stop tiger with single jackson or SU-85.


No tittitof you are wrong. Lets recap the su85 has 60 % chance of penetrating a tiger 53% for the jackson. the panther on the other hand has a penetration value of 70 % against the is2. But that doesnt make them better AT. as both the jackson has 50 % of the damage output of a single panther. second part they are way cheaper. you can easily have 2 jacksons/su85 for every panther. so in short the tiger is going to face 3 times more dps then an is 2. its time the is2 armour get brought down to 300 along the same line as the tiger.

Recap : the su in its current state have the following advantages over the: they have better infantry, better support weapons , better medium tanks , better heavy tanks and better teching.

The only pro's for the ostheer is that they have better handheld AT and each BP has a a selction of AT and AI.
12 Mar 2015, 22:23 PM
#199
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

Alexzandvar, are you sure you are mature enough to participate in serious disucussions?

Axis are better than allies, thats a fact based on hard evidence which is automatch percentage rate 10% allies and 90% axis.

Wehr is fine. Yes, even against USF. Its not a-move win anymore, but thats only good thing right.
12 Mar 2015, 22:44 PM
#200
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Alexzandvar, are you sure you are mature enough to participate in serious disucussions?

Axis are better than allies, thats a fact based on hard evidence which is automatch percentage rate 10% allies and 90% axis.

Wehr is fine. Yes, even against USF. Its not a-move win anymore, but thats only good thing right.


The automatic ratio doesn't reflect balance in anyway, got debunked a long time ago. Very few people play the game, which is one of the reasons the percentages are so wonky.
PAGES (15)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Soviets flag T.R. TheSeekingGuy
  • Soviets flag T.R. Opportunity Cost
  • Oberkommando West flag VonAsten
  • Oberkommando West flag Jove
uploaded by Seeking

Board Info

112 users are online: 4 members and 108 guests
-HOI-PauL.a.D, Mumbai Beautygirls, Labrieaq60g, ShadowLinkX37
110 posts in the last 24h
1033 posts in the last week
4757 posts in the last month
Registered members: 19151
Welcome our newest member, Labrieaq60g
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM