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russian armor

attack ground for all mg's

18 Feb 2015, 13:17 PM
#1
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

Hi
I suggest an attack ground ability for mg's to counter smoke.
It would be a buff that needs micro and could also be used against the mg-owner.
attack ground should deal very little damge but supresses normal.
I suggest this because the mg is an area of effect weapon (at last in the german army).

Enables mind games like fire smoke and wait for relaod
...


Maybe needs little tweaks like it only suppresses yellow



please discuss


18 Feb 2015, 19:03 PM
#2
avatar of iDolize

Posts: 81

I agree this would be a useful counter to smoke, and would present a risk/reward of staying and getting naded or suppressing a charging infantry unit through concealing smoke.
18 Feb 2015, 19:19 PM
#3
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

This would completely negate smoke, so it's a no from me.
18 Feb 2015, 19:25 PM
#4
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

idk. i think it's an interesting idea but i can also see it causing a LOT of balance issues... given relic's track record i'm going to be against implementing it since the current system works ok, baring other issues with the squads....
18 Feb 2015, 23:17 PM
#5
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1790 | Subs: 1

Seems like a good idea, but this will make smokes useless. Although smokes and nades are OP now, we don't want them to become totally useless.
18 Feb 2015, 23:46 PM
#6
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322

This... Could work actually, But under the stipulation that
MG's suppression gets cut 30-50% while firing through smoke as not to make smoke worthless.

Ive always liked the idea that all MG's ignore infantry received accuracy and armor.
18 Feb 2015, 23:54 PM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13803 | Subs: 7

And completely bypass intended HMG hardcounters?

No, thanks.
19 Feb 2015, 00:07 AM
#8
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2015, 23:54 PMKatitof
And completely bypass intended HMG hardcounters?

No, thanks.


With the exception of the Maxim MG's for the most part suck right now.

MG-42 has problems doing its job vs allied infantry
MG-34 has the same problem (Although for very cheap)
M2HB Gets squished by gren and ober blobs
DsHK Not very high suppression and expensive to boot.

MG42 and 34 should be better at its role.

M2HB and DsHK damage output should be way higher.
(12.7x99 & 12.7x108mm)

Two different classes of weapon between the sets of two.
19 Feb 2015, 00:09 AM
#9
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561



With the exception of the Maxim MG's for the most part suck right now.

MG-42 has problems doing its job vs allied infantry
MG-34 has the same problem (Although for very cheap)
M2HB Gets squished by gren and ober blobs
DsHK Not very high suppression and expensive to boot.

MG42 and 34 should be better at its role.

M2HB and DsHK damage output should be way higher.
(12.7x99 & 12.7x108mm)

Two different classes of weapon between the sets of two.

OK, but just because a unit is uderperforming doesn't mean we need completely invalidate it's counter.
19 Feb 2015, 00:18 AM
#10
avatar of Mirage357

Posts: 341

I'd personally like them to add a traverse button where you could suppress infantry in a wider ark, but only for a limited time. And if smoke was put down then the MG would still do damage in traverse firing but would not cause suppression.
19 Feb 2015, 00:24 AM
#11
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322


OK, but just because a unit is uderperforming doesn't mean we need completely invalidate it's counter.


Just two diffrent ways of fixing a problem. If MG's suppression got cut in half when firing though smoke 1 mg would not be able to stop infantry in time. however if you are frontally charging a mg with smoke and say 2 or 3 are firing though it you would get suppressed anyways.

So, 1 MG would not be able to stop it in time, but if 2 or 3 mg's are overlapping in a crossfire you won't to be able to just yolo charge it with 1 smoke.


Just buffing the MG's are a more direct solution but seeing how MG's were at launch the number tweaking
has to be spot on or early game balance goes out the window.
19 Feb 2015, 00:59 AM
#12
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

I think this would nerf smoke too much (which is supposed to counter HMGs) . Moreover it would encourage HMG spam, especially on choke point maps you could attack ground into the fog of war and make certain areas impassable.

By this you wouldn't need to spot for your HMGs anymore which means less combined arms play.
19 Feb 2015, 01:06 AM
#13
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

It was sugested before many times, also by myself, the problem is that attack ground is not possible to implement for small arms. I guess that ends the discussion...
19 Feb 2015, 01:44 AM
#14
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Donator 11

Posts: 3040 | Subs: 14

It was sugested before many times, also by myself, the problem is that attack ground is not possible to implement for small arms. I guess that ends the discussion...


There was an MG42 in Coh1 worldbuilder that could attack ground the way its being suggested in this thread.

And thats on the old engine. Its possible. Everything is possible.. Its how much relic wants to implement it.
19 Feb 2015, 03:47 AM
#15
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609

>:( : Scheiße Jürgen, cease fire on the smoke, Oberkommando forbid wasting ammunition of the Vaterland.

o_O : But Leutnant, Amerikaner are behind the smoke.

>:( : Don't you dare not following der Fuhrer's order.

Meanwhile in Führerbunker,



19 Feb 2015, 04:03 AM
#16
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

if it's not in the engine right now, consider it impossible. relic has enough trouble dealing with what's already there; they're not going to implement something else and if they do they'll fuck it up.
19 Feb 2015, 04:43 AM
#17
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4494

Since when did smoke become the hard-counter to machine guns? I thought mortars and flanking were the hard counters?


There was an MG42 in Coh1 worldbuilder that could attack ground the way its being suggested in this thread.

It's still there, although the attack ground does no damage or suppression.


if it's not in the engine right now, consider it impossible. relic has enough trouble dealing with what's already there; they're not going to implement something else and if they do they'll fuck it up.

Airborne have a "Suppress Area" type ability on their M1919's.
19 Feb 2015, 05:16 AM
#18
avatar of ASneakyFox

Posts: 365

i dont see how that could be done in a logical way. Using attack ground with AT guns and tanks makes sense because the round has to go somewhere and you have to be able to guess where to aim the shot.

with MGs theres nothing like that.
19 Feb 2015, 05:17 AM
#19
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

yeah, but those are abilities, not attacks.
19 Feb 2015, 05:21 AM
#20
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2015, 23:54 PMKatitof
And completely bypass intended HMG hardcounters?

No, thanks.


You know that the Flak Trak can actually do exactly what the OP is saying right? I don't see why certain units get to negate smoke and others don't since smoke blocks your line of sight anyway so you need to guess what you are shooting at.

Putting this in would allow people with proper micro to counter shock/rifle blobs that just need to throw smoke to negate all your blob counters.
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