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Ostheer - MG42

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12 Apr 2015, 22:49 PM
#481
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 730

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2015, 22:44 PMAladdin


That's how good Maxim is! Insta set up and suppression
I maxim is easy to flank and doesn't have the large firing are or suppression aoe like the mg42 does, it can only effectively suppress one squad
12 Apr 2015, 22:53 PM
#482
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

I maxim is easy to flank and doesn't have the large firing are or suppression aoe like the mg42 does, it can only effectively suppress one squad


It can effectively suppress more than one squad, but imagine Maxim had m42s arc of fire!!! lol but still its bro 50Cal has a biger arc of fire and yet great suppression and fast set up
12 Apr 2015, 22:58 PM
#483
avatar of Vuther
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2015, 22:53 PMAladdin


It can effectively suppress more than one squad, but imagine Maxim had m42s arc of fire!!! lol but still its bro 50Cal has a biger arc of fire and yet great suppression and fast set up

Not on its own it can't. Just tested it in CheatCommands out of curiosity myself. Stacked up like 5 Gren squads real close together, at vet 0 it takes at least like 6 seconds for another squad close-by the target to get suppressed (and from what I could tell for some weird reason, only one other squad did) which of course is a fucking eternity that is realistically mostly useless. With vet 3 it'll suppress squads close-by the target in around two seconds, which is about how long it takes for a vet 0 HMG42 to do the same, probably just a bit faster.

Maxims will suppress a group if you're a robot that can instantly get the accompanying infantry to immediately fire on what's suppressed and then have the Maxim switch targets. And the group it's against refuses to move at all.
12 Apr 2015, 23:38 PM
#484
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2015, 22:58 PMVuther

Not on its own it can't. Just tested it in CheatCommands out of curiosity myself. Stacked up like 5 Gren squads real close together, at vet 0 it takes at least like 6 seconds for another squad close-by the target to get suppressed (and from what I could tell for some weird reason, only one other squad did) which of course is a fucking eternity that is realistically mostly useless. With vet 3 it'll suppress squads close-by the target in around two seconds, which is about how long it takes for a vet 0 HMG42 to do the same, probably just a bit faster.

Maxims will suppress a group if you're a robot that can instantly get the accompanying infantry to immediately fire on what's suppressed and then have the Maxim switch targets. And the group it's against refuses to move at all.


yes Mg42 is the best mg in the game! Kappa! lol :megusta:
12 Apr 2015, 23:45 PM
#485
avatar of Vuther
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2015, 23:38 PMAladdin


yes Mg42 is the best mg in the game! Kappa! lol :megusta:

If suppressing blobs was solely what made an HMG, then yes, it would be.
13 Apr 2015, 00:32 AM
#486
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2015, 22:44 PMAladdin


That's how good Maxim is! Insta set up and suppression


you must be stuck in an alternate universe where u are still playing the game from 2 patches ago
13 Apr 2015, 00:52 AM
#489
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

is the maxim still able to fire while suppresed or pinned?
i rember a-move maxim takes already set up mg42 head on and wins because mg42 stops fireing when supresssed or pinned

that would be the only problem i have with the maxim
however faster setup time for mg42 would be great
13 Apr 2015, 00:58 AM
#490
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4290 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2015, 00:52 AMChiro
is the maxim still able to fire while suppresed or pinned?
i rember a-move maxim takes already set up mg42 head on and wins because mg42 stops fireing when supresssed or pinned

that would be the only problem i have with the maxim
however faster setup time for mg42 would be great


wasnt that the case when the game just came out? a bygone age.

maxim no longer does that in my experience. not capable of it.

btw both mgs fire when suppressed and can still suppress when they themselves are suppressed. when they are pinned, they fire, but they fire blanks. almost no damage, no suppression at all.
13 Apr 2015, 01:03 AM
#491
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

ok thanks for the info
13 Apr 2015, 01:28 AM
#492
avatar of Vuther
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2015, 00:52 AMChiro
is the maxim still able to fire while suppresed or pinned?
i rember a-move maxim takes already set up mg42 head on and wins because mg42 stops fireing when supresssed or pinned

They both seem to have the exact same penalties when suppressed (Speed reduction, 4 times the cooldown and reload, quartered accuracy) and pinned (Can't cap, suppression turned to 0, scatter more than tripled, quartered accuracy, doubled cooldown and reload). That being said, while I haven't seen it for myself in a long time, I'd hardly be surprised if that were the still the case considering the Maxim's generally superior single-target suppression.

I really don't know why they can still fire when pinned. On a related note, mortars can as well, who receive no additional combat penalties from being pinned - just can't move or cap.
13 Apr 2015, 02:51 AM
#493
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2015, 01:28 AMVuther

They both seem to have the exact same penalties when suppressed (Speed reduction, 4 times the cooldown and reload, quartered accuracy) and pinned (Can't cap, suppression turned to 0, scatter more than tripled, quartered accuracy, doubled cooldown and reload). That being said, while I haven't seen it for myself in a long time, I'd hardly be surprised if that were the still the case considering the Maxim's generally superior single-target suppression.

I really don't know why they can still fire when pinned. On a related note, mortars can as well, who receive no additional combat penalties from being pinned - just can't move or cap.


the HMG42 (and probably 34 and m2) can fire sort of ok while suppressed as of like 3 patches ago when they made that change. the maxim has always ignored suppression and pinning as far as the gun goes.
13 Apr 2015, 04:53 AM
#495
avatar of Ruinan Ding

Posts: 77

you can play mow as2 if you want somethign more realistic
13 Apr 2015, 06:25 AM
#496
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1737

@Aladdin and QueenRatchet

Would you please shut up? I'm sick of going through your posts and invisible most of them because you two are arguing like little children.

BACK TO TOPIC!
14 Apr 2015, 22:04 PM
#497
avatar of ZeroCrack01

Posts: 26

I am a COH1 Veteran and quite new to COH2. You can not compare to that mg it was used to be, but i feel it really could have a small suppress but, even if it is small. Too often a mg got wiped because they cant supress and got a nade in their face.
I also recognized that it has far less suppress capabilities than e.g. a maxim. (it's bigger radius is not an argument for me because of its lower turn rate) For me is should be able to defend a fixed position on the map, not without support but with one gren squad for e.g.. Usually i can not rely on grens only cause they lose firepower quite quickly (4 models). At the same time i can not babysit that mg all the time with a army because i need to cap too. If Ostheer have not that flexibility to cap like other fractions, than it it should be more capable to defend it. Surely, they cost not much (240mp) and it should not be a "op, insta supress and kill weapon". I dont want to make references to rl, but it just doesnt do it job as it should. I do not care about dps or even turn rate (even if its depressing) but it just doesnt it job as it should in my oponion.

Other idea would be, that inf shouldn be able to throw granades if they are pinned, so they cant only rely only on dps with small arms and still get punished with frontal charge to the mg. For blobber still not a problem (late game) but for germans later suppress is not that extreme fatal.

Maybe it sounds like the old mechanics I was used in COH1, but even in COH1 that current mg42 would fit better without that insta smoke mechanics.
14 Apr 2015, 22:39 PM
#498
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

The MG42 is the perfect model for how an MG should function vs blobs, the MG34 and Maxim should be buffed to its level
14 Apr 2015, 22:51 PM
#499
avatar of Vuther
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Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2015, 22:39 PMRollo
The MG42 is the perfect model for how an MG should function vs blobs, the MG34 and Maxim should be buffed to its level

HMG34 is fine. Basically incapable of suppressing with the first burst ever, but it's cheap so just get at least two. If it needs anything more, maybe a bit of a long-range DPS increase (not to the 42's level, of course) so it can get vet a bit faster.

Maxim should a bit of an AoE suppression so it can actually handle blobs with spotters instead of having to micro each unit suppressed, probably at the cost of increasing the set-up time a bit because none of us regard the Maxim as slow/suppressing one target poorly, and that would be a reasonable trade-off to make it better at actually locking down areas - make it take a bit more foresight and positioning to safely get down like the HMG42/34, but not quite as much because it won't shut down such a large area as hard (Ok, those two can only actually shut down the entire area with vet to actually traverse any good, but...you get me).
14 Apr 2015, 23:00 PM
#500
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2015, 22:51 PMVuther

HMG34 is fine. Basically incapable of suppressing with the first burst ever, but it's cheap so just get at least two. If it needs anything more, maybe a bit of a long-range DPS increase (not to the 42's level, of course) so it can get vet a bit faster.

Maxim should a bit of an AoE suppression so it can actually handle blobs with spotters instead of having to micro each unit suppressed, probably at the cost of increasing the set-up time a bit because none of us regard the Maxim as slow/suppressing one target poorly, and that would be a reasonable trade-off to make it better at actually locking down areas - make it take a bit more foresight and positioning to safely get down like the HMG42/34, but not quite as much because it won't shut down such a large area as hard (Ok, those two can only actually shut down the entire area with vet to actually traverse any good, but...you get me).


The problem is that the 34 has all the weakness's of the 42 but none of the strengths. It should just do a lot more damage with less suppression or possibly faster swivel and reload speed.

The model for a unit shouldn't be "Like that other unit exactly, but shit"
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