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Ostheer - MG42

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18 Mar 2015, 20:29 PM
#461
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1132 | Subs: 1


Hm? Ambush camo on 42s is bugged. I've seen it a few times in this patch, unless it got very recently ninjaed. You can see the unit, you can't shoot at it though. IIRC a guy called Arthurkrupp uses them alot, he is a solid OH player. Still, ambush camo is in nonviable doctrines. No amount of ambush camo is gonna protect you from an IS-2...


Actually, you would be suprised. Jaeger infantry is an amazingly underused doctrine. The mg42 + camo is great, and when you upgrade your 3-4 grens with g43s, you can murder infantry that get caught in your suppression field. You need to rely on Paks for AT, but thats not really a problem nowadays with the new TWP.

Additionally, a PGREN with shrecks behind your paks will deal large amounts of alpha damage to enemy armor. To top off the power of the doctrine, you get the borderline OP Stuka CAS loitering strafe to murder enemy vehicles and support teams. It can easily shave quite a bit of health from an IS2 with engine damage or pathing issues.
18 Mar 2015, 20:31 PM
#462
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13662 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2015, 20:26 PMATCF



Ambush camo also gives that 20-30% damage bonus for about 5 seconds when you start firing, and IS-2 doesnt show up until on Late game period, so your MG 42´s would be relatively safe until then, and Armor piercing ammo for MG 42 is the best thing for MG´s in this game

i suggest everyone to spam incendiary ammo, since it kills infantry and vehicles, and its cheap for its damage potential

It gives 50% dmg bonus for 5sec.
18 Mar 2015, 20:52 PM
#463
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225



Actually, you would be suprised. Jaeger infantry is an amazingly underused doctrine. The mg42 + camo is great, and when you upgrade your 3-4 grens with g43s, you can murder infantry that get caught in your suppression field. You need to rely on Paks for AT, but thats not really a problem nowadays with the new TWP.

Additionally, a PGREN with shrecks behind your paks will deal large amounts of alpha damage to enemy armor. To top off the power of the doctrine, you get the borderline OP Stuka CAS loitering strafe to murder enemy vehicles and support teams. It can easily shave quite a bit of health from an IS2 with engine damage or pathing issues.

Actually, the loiter Stuka isnt just borderline op IMO, but still, this just does not work barring insane RNG. I've seen really good players try this, and it failed every time.
The reason is really just the call-in meta. In fact, every OH non-doc centered strat is virtually doomed to fail against both Soviet and US metaplay. If I for one see ambush camo I just switch to a more conservative playstyle, get some indirect fire up and prepare for the long game, for which you have much better tools both as US and Sovs - after all, no Tiger, no Ele. Even with a more than solid early to midgame, OH will get one measly PIV out at about 8cp with huge tech/opportunity costs - a unit that is superceded across the board by the no tech 9/10 cp Easy-8/T34-85 and literally nullified by the Jackson/IS-2. As soon as the Soviet/US player has his major tech/call-ins out, he trades much more cost-efficiently and will just grind OH down; just dont go balls deep and drive on Tellers, and OH will be unable to ever actually kill your armour.
18 Mar 2015, 21:08 PM
#464
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1132 | Subs: 1


Actually, the loiter Stuka isnt just borderline op IMO, but still, this just does not work barring insane RNG. I've seen really good players try this, and it failed every time.
The reason is really just the call-in meta. In fact, every OH non-doc centered strat is virtually doomed to fail against both Soviet and US metaplay. If I for one see ambush camo I just switch to a more conservative playstyle, get some indirect fire up and prepare for the long game, for which you have much better tools both as US and Sovs - after all, no Tiger, no Ele. Even with a more than solid early to midgame, OH will get one measly PIV out at about 8cp with huge tech/opportunity costs - a unit that is superceded across the board by the no tech 9/10 cp Easy-8/T34-85 and literally nullified by the Jackson/IS-2. As soon as the Soviet/US player has his major tech/call-ins out, he trades much more cost-efficiently and will just grind OH down; just dont go balls deep and drive on Tellers, and OH will be unable to ever actually kill your armour.


Here's the thing. all you need to do is defend a VP + fuel, then shift to the next VP as well before your opponent has a chance to use the callin armor. If he decides to use e8s and /85s, 2 paks + tellers will deal with them easily. Remember, You aren't the one who has to attack, that burden falls on the soviet/USF who has to attack your fotified position. If your enemy went for medium callins, they will have no offmap or onmap artillery (besides WP/180mm), and will thus have no direct counter to your defensive position. I find that the 180 is easy enough to deal with, just push as your enemy pulls back, using the tactical movement speed boost. Hold out till the 19 min mark and you should have a panther out, which will deal very cost effectively with their vehicles. The only doctrine I've had trouble countering has been counterattack, but I remedied this by just not going jaeger if my enemy has counterattack as a doctrine choice.

In fact, the first doctrine I am going to make with custom commanders if they are a thing will be PAK43 + ambush camo. Best defensive position possible.
18 Mar 2015, 21:16 PM
#465
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Hm. Congrats if you can make that work, especially since its obviously original/non meta, but I seriously doubt you'll beat a good player like that - at least not more than once. I believe there is a reason you don't see that sort of approach in high level play. Anyways, we'll agree to disagree.
18 Mar 2015, 21:19 PM
#466
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1132 | Subs: 1

Hm. Congrats if you can make that work, especially since its obviously original/non meta, but I seriously doubt you'll beat a good player like that - at least not more than once. I believe there is a reason you don't see that sort of approach in high level play. Anyways, we'll agree to disagree.


I just find it fun to mess around with less than used doctrines, adds quite a bit of replay-ability. Messing with the USF mechanised company has gotten me into top 100 USF 2v2. XD

Not to mention using purposefully more micro intensive strategies makes you a better player, I seriously encourage players to try doctrines outside of their comfort zones.
18 Mar 2015, 22:16 PM
#467
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2015, 20:31 PMKatitof

It gives 50% dmg bonus for 5sec.


50%!?!, i guess it can down 1 model before the suppression kicks in, if all 14 bullets hit in 5 seconds
18 Mar 2015, 23:06 PM
#468
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I just find it fun to mess around with less than used doctrines, adds quite a bit of replay-ability. Messing with the USF mechanised company has gotten me into top 100 USF 2v2. XD

Not to mention using purposefully more micro intensive strategies makes you a better player, I seriously encourage players to try doctrines outside of their comfort zones.


I can vouch for the effectiveness of Comm's strats, but breaking the meta does leave you in a sticky situation versus a good player due to the fact that Ostheer teching is so bleh at the moment.

LeYawns point about mostly team game players is correct though, as the MG42 becomes easier to use when you have multiple suppression platforms covering each other and a OKW blob to back you up, but in lower game modes like 2's the MG42 becomes very eh due to it's fragility.

When I play Ostheer I go for elefants more than I go for Tigers, I can deal with enemy infantry, what I can't deal with is medium spam/IS2's thanks to the fact that AT guns are much less durable than they used to be and Pgren shreks are always asking to be wiped.
19 Mar 2015, 02:31 AM
#469
avatar of Remi

Posts: 17

MG42 is like all other non doctrinal OH units, useless. Don't expect relic to introduce historical accuracy, for some reason they think the Maxim was more effective and the 50.cal was more mobile.
19 Mar 2015, 06:06 AM
#470
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

The mg42 is a good mg. When i play OH and my enemy steals a mg42 i'm in deep shit.
I think molotovs and smoke overperform and/or come to early.
After watching Lemon i could use the mg a bit better but smoke still made it useless and 2 conscripts still beat my mg42+gren with the help of molotovs
The mg is not at fault. It suppressed one conscript but the grens couldn't hold of the other one.
In this situation even if the mg pins instant, the flanking conscript will push it away - as it should.

It's not easy to tackle this problem without changing the whole game but maybe a little set-up/tear down buff would help the mg to soft retreat more often in case of unexpected fog or fire
19 Mar 2015, 07:34 AM
#471
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



At least, you will be able to micro more with OPKW to see who is really a better player. Cheers to Axis only players!


That is where you are wrong my Starcraft APM 100+ friend. COH2 is not only about MICRO is also about BRAINS and God helps it stays that way. So, you see, in this game the one with better micro won't always win - and it should stay that way. After all, that is why we love the game and that is why even in its worst state is better than SC2. ;)
19 Mar 2015, 07:35 AM
#472
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2015, 06:06 AMChiro
The mg42 is a good mg. When i play OH and my enemy steals a mg42 i'm in deep shit.
I think molotovs and smoke overperform and/or come to early.
After watching Lemon i could use the mg a bit better but smoke still made it useless and 2 conscripts still beat my mg42+gren with the help of molotovs
The mg is not at fault. It suppressed one conscript but the grens couldn't hold of the other one.
In this situation even if the mg pins instant, the flanking conscript will push it away - as it should.

It's not easy to tackle this problem without changing the whole game but maybe a little set-up/tear down buff would help the mg to soft retreat more often in case of unexpected fog or fire


^NO

If ur mg'42 is in a bad position..

INSTANT RETREAT

19 Mar 2015, 08:44 AM
#473
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705



Thats alot more reasonable than

wat aust said.

4 rifles + 3 paras plus mandatory RE


Nice twisting words.I said 3-4 rifles earlygame.Lategame 2-3 paras IF u lose a squad or 2 which can happen if things actually get to lategame.Ofc in most usf vs ost it won't.
19 Mar 2015, 09:25 AM
#474
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1068



I just find it fun to mess around with less than used doctrines, adds quite a bit of replay-ability. Messing with the USF mechanised company has gotten me into top 100 USF 2v2. XD

Not to mention using purposefully more micro intensive strategies makes you a better player, I seriously encourage players to try doctrines outside of their comfort zones.


+1 to that.

I love trying to break meta, it gives you a much greater buzz and sense of achievement and often the unpredictability of a fresh strat will make a big difference. And after all, I play this game to THINK not follow a brainless meta.


I have often been thinking that the way to get the most out of Werh is to use one of the many ways to increase survivabilty of their inf. So either camo, trenches or command tank. Werh does not need Tigers to compete.
24 Mar 2015, 22:01 PM
#475
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2015, 12:01 PMButcher
But infantry running into their hard counters and winning is bullshit.

Yes, that is bullshit.
25 Mar 2015, 00:15 AM
#476
avatar of iceman

Posts: 148

So hopefully this new patch on 31st gives the mg42 something.... well see
30 Mar 2015, 05:53 AM
#477
avatar of woolypeanut

Posts: 14

To be fair later comments do address the MG42 does under perform, it has hideously long rotation time and it doesn't fulfill it's role anywhere near as well as the maxim or 50cal. 240 for a support team seems steep, if it only performs one job (and the 42 doesn't do it very well comparatively) shouldn't the unit be cheaper? All the MGs are liek this though so w/

The real issue is how bugged the fucker is, it'll get stuck in buildings while tearing down and sometimes when it leaves the building you don't have a chance to retreat the squad before they try to set up again...

WTH is with relic and breaking weapons teams, they did it in DoW2 aswell, poor guardsman heavy bolter teams.
30 Mar 2015, 14:45 PM
#478
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

To be fair later comments do address the MG42 does under perform, it has hideously long rotation time and it doesn't fulfill it's role anywhere near as well as the maxim or 50cal. 240 for a support team seems steep, if it only performs one job (and the 42 doesn't do it very well comparatively) shouldn't the unit be cheaper? All the MGs are liek this though so w/

The real issue is how bugged the fucker is, it'll get stuck in buildings while tearing down and sometimes when it leaves the building you don't have a chance to retreat the squad before they try to set up again...

WTH is with relic and breaking weapons teams, they did it in DoW2 aswell, poor guardsman heavy bolter teams.



if you placed the MG 42 on that 2 story wooden building that is on Langreskaya and Semois, it will make the MG get stuck inside for a few seconds and switching firing positions all the time, and doing all kind of stupid things, its a problem with that wooden building
12 Apr 2015, 22:16 PM
#479
avatar of iceman

Posts: 148

The MG42 setup time is horrible.
12 Apr 2015, 22:44 PM
#480
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2015, 22:16 PMiceman
The MG42 setup time is horrible.


That's how good Maxim is! Insta set up and suppression
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