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russian armor

sWS Supply HT speed reduction

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10 Feb 2015, 22:35 PM
#81
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I dont think thats everyones opinion. I think the truck needs to stay durable as it is. So it can get to Point A to B as slow as it goes. But I like the idea if the Area is uncapped it moves REAL SLOW like Engine Damaged Truck Slow. This way if you want to be cute with it you stand a really good chance to lose it. If you are smart and use it to place a building in connected territory as it requires then its not in as much risk.

I hate the idea of ultra fragile Ambulance type units in this game. Its just dumb.


It should be able to move in uncaptured territory fine, as most of the time you will rush the fuel or another critical point with your sturms and have the sWS move into position before back capping to allow it to set up (This assumes you don't use it to push) why add extra hassle when you can just remove it's ability to collide with infantry?
10 Feb 2015, 22:50 PM
#82
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637



It should be able to move in uncaptured territory fine, as most of the time you will rush the fuel or another critical point with your sturms and have the sWS move into position before back capping to allow it to set up (This assumes you don't use it to push) why add extra hassle when you can just remove it's ability to collide with infantry?


I dont really care. As long as pushing with it is not viable. But making a speed change in uncapped territory already has a precedent.

11 Feb 2015, 09:21 AM
#83
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2015, 22:08 PMCptEend


A Ket doesn't come with a suppression platform, neither does a Jeep, and a bike doesn't come with a strong unit like the sturm pio. It's the combination of the kubel, sturm and free truck you get that's just stupid.


Bike push Rifles out of green cover and get supressed and slaughtered by MG42 and Volks, bike push Rifles away from MG42 preventing flanked MG42 getting slaughtered.

Jeep pushing PG allowing Engi / Rifles win early engagement.

Ket push Rifles out of green cover and let PG/221/222/IHT win, pushing Brits capper and decap allowing a very safe 3 Ket, fast AC build order.

Brit lol, you can get speed governor on truck and get a Blitzkrieg truck push and building destructor, if you insist.


Typically golden 101 micro tricks of the old Wehr, US, PE, and once again, I claim, COH2 idiots think this kind of micro stupid, is truly stupid.

And now WTF Relic nerf the sWS again, now OKW can't even have a chance in buildings-heavy map.
11 Feb 2015, 10:06 AM
#84
avatar of Carronade

Posts: 48

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2015, 09:21 AMPorygon


Bike push Rifles out of green cover and get supressed and slaughtered by MG42 and Volks, bike push Rifles away from MG42 preventing flanked MG42 getting slaughtered.

Jeep pushing PG allowing Engi / Rifles win early engagement.

Ket push Rifles out of green cover and let PG/221/222/IHT win, pushing Brits capper and decap allowing a very safe 3 Ket, fast AC build order.

Brit lol, you can get speed governor on truck and get a Blitzkrieg truck push and building destructor, if you insist.


Typically golden 101 micro tricks of the old Wehr, US, PE, and once again, I claim, COH2 idiots think this kind of micro stupid, is truly stupid.

And now WTF Relic nerf the sWS again, now OKW can't even have a chance in buildings-heavy map.



Are you seriously arguing that OKW truck pushing/crushing should be seen as a 'skillfull' weapon to help OKW in early game on city maps?... :facepalm:

Ket, bike and jeep push in CoH cannot be compared to OKW truck pushing. As it has been said before, truck pushing needs no resource investment and in the opening game (there are no shock troops in the opening, wtf?) the truck is almost indestructible. Your risk of using the truck to push is really low.

Bikes, jeeps and especially kets could be focused down quite easily in CoH and needed resource investment. This made pushing much more risky. If you had an early jeep, you would have one less rifle squad for your opening. Additionally, being to aggressive with the vehicle or misjudging situations would quickly result in the loss of your vehicle, an additional setback.

OKW truck pushing is just nasty, low risk and requires no skill. It provides an unfair benefit to OKW in early game and should not be possible.

11 Feb 2015, 11:15 AM
#85
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

make the truck cost 100mp and lower the buildings by 100mp
problem solved ...
11 Feb 2015, 11:29 AM
#86
avatar of Khan

Posts: 565

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2015, 15:43 PMPorygon
Once again, why Ket push, Jeep push, bike push is skill, truck push is stupid?

Dafug is this logic?


Because they aren't free units and are actually intended for scouting and harassing, not teching. They also die extremely quickly to focussed fire. Stop making bullshit arguments.
2 Mar 2015, 23:49 PM
#87
avatar of JuanElstretchyNeck

Posts: 226

I really don't understand why everyone cries so much about pushing so much. It's really not that big of a deal, it just means you have to move your infantry around a little bit more. Most of the time it even ends up in your favour, because it means the OKW player is focusing on his SwS instead of his other units.

I've had this done to me plenty of times as both Sov and USF - all you need to do is move your inf squads out of the way. Not that hard. Deal with it.
2 Mar 2015, 23:53 PM
#88
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

if your squad is being pushed it is dealing no damage and is receiving no cover bonuses.
3 Mar 2015, 00:11 AM
#89
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1385

I really don't understand why everyone cries so much about pushing so much. It's really not that big of a deal, it just means you have to move your infantry around a little bit more. Most of the time it even ends up in your favour, because it means the OKW player is focusing on his SwS instead of his other units.

I've had this done to me plenty of times as both Sov and USF - all you need to do is move your inf squads out of the way. Not that hard. Deal with it.


Nothing wrong with pushing, the problem is OKW can do this with a FREE unit at no expense to the player which is BS.
3 Mar 2015, 00:17 AM
#90
avatar of JuanElstretchyNeck

Posts: 226



Nothing wrong with pushing, the problem is OKW can do this with a FREE unit at no expense to the player which is BS.


you mean an essential part of their teching that dies easily to small arms fire?

Move your squads out of the way before the truck reaches them. Problem solved. if you let the truck get to your squads, you deserve to get pushed.
Neo
3 Mar 2015, 00:21 AM
#91
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

I don't know if anyone else shares this view but for me things that are so blatantly non-realistic ruins the play and feel of the game.

In a war, you don't rush a supply truck at enemy positions to knock over fences and prevent the enemy from getting into cover.

Shouldn't be like that in the game either.
3 Mar 2015, 00:28 AM
#92
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1385



you mean an essential part of their teching that dies easily to small arms fire?

Move your squads out of the way before the truck reaches them. Problem solved. if you let the truck get to your squads, you deserve to get pushed.


Exactly, the truck is intended for teching, not pushing with kubel + sturm cambo to GG your opponent. Read the other posts at top, pushing is fine if I am flanked but with a free truck is bull. Top of that, OKW player will not just stand idly and let my squad damage his truck, my squads cant even shoot back since they are being "pushed" anyway.
3 Mar 2015, 00:28 AM
#93
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4290 | Subs: 2



you mean an essential part of their teching that dies easily to small arms fire?

Move your squads out of the way before the truck reaches them. Problem solved. if you let the truck get to your squads, you deserve to get pushed.


if you had to move, sws has done its job. its not like sws is slower than infantry.

i have problem with a free unit being able to turn at least the first engagement in your favour.
3 Mar 2015, 01:18 AM
#94
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786



you mean an essential part of their teching that dies easily to small arms fire?

easily, like 30 seconds of focused fire? while you are doing zero dps to actual units that fire at you?

Move your squads out of the way before the truck reaches them. Problem solved. if you let the truck get to your squads, you deserve to get pushed.

Move my squads? where? wtf are saying?
3 Mar 2015, 02:02 AM
#95
avatar of JuanElstretchyNeck

Posts: 226

It's almost like no one knows how to micro.....amazing. L2P
3 Mar 2015, 02:06 AM
#96
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

and focusing the truck is retarded because they don't bleed, or even need to be repaired (do they setup with full health?) and you'll never kill one that early in the game against a competent player.
3 Mar 2015, 02:17 AM
#97
avatar of JuanElstretchyNeck

Posts: 226

You don't need to focus the truck. Just keep moving the squad that it is chasing while you dps his inf/Kubel (which isn't being micro'd by him) with your other inf.

They setup with the damage that they took as an undeployed SwS
3 Mar 2015, 02:30 AM
#98
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
You don't need to focus the truck. Just keep moving the squad that it is chasing while you dps his inf/Kubel (which isn't being micro'd by him) with your other inf.



This doesnt work juan :snfBarton:
3 Mar 2015, 02:32 AM
#99
avatar of JuanElstretchyNeck

Posts: 226

I've done it plenty of times. How many squads are you guys going against the SwS with? just one?
3 Mar 2015, 04:17 AM
#100
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6319 | Subs: 1

Sigh. Some people need the longer explanation.

Sws truck 101: Early game
-You destroy his cover or push him around. The unit in question can't shoot so your SP has it easy on killing whatever.
-You use it to avoid a unit being able to get inside a building.
-It scouts early on.
-It blocks for your Kubel.
-It soaks small arm fire.

Against someone using truck push, you've to back up and relegate capping. If you spread out, he is just gonna force retreat 1 by 1 on your units. You have to expect a missmicro from him and overwhelm his position while avoiding getting supressed by the Kubel.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

How to avoid being punished as OKW:
Your window timing is at 2 Volks + Kubel. At this point you've to know if you are facing T1, T2 or Con spam. USF can't punish you unless he goes for Elite Rifles or Dodge (similar timings to T1 M3)

SP + 2 Volks + Kubel: 1030mp
2CE + 2 Cons + M3 + T1: 1130mp
CE + 3 Cons + AT nades: 1015mp
Dodge timing is similar to M3 and i'm not sure if Elite rifles arrive as your 2nd or 3rd Rifle. Anyway against USF is really easy since they can't hoorah.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
This basically shows that theres no risk early on as there is nothing that can realistically kill your SwS if you back up by the time you are making your 2nd Volks.
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