A Suggestion For Panther Balance
8 Feb 2015, 19:49 PM
#81
Posts: 314
The Panther is extremely balanced I think. It's not too strong and not too weak which is good since the US has the best tank destroyer in the game(Jackson).
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9 Feb 2015, 00:35 AM
#82
Posts: 1042
Call in meta is king, thank you for stating the obvious. I'm sorry you can't go Irregular or Partisan tactics and hope to beat Medium/Heavy tanks.
And there in lies the problem.
I want to be able to use this doctrine I've spent real money on to beat the enemy, and not have to have an absurd amount of luck, as well as a dumb opponent, to win. Having to have all those things to make a doctrine work doesn't sound like balance to me.
Your attitude also seems to validate the belief that all Soviet non-doctrinal stuff should be crap "because callins". Yet Ost and OKW in particular receive units non-doctrinally that are more than a match for doctrinal hardware on the other side.
Soviets are forced to rely on doctrines, not because the doctrinal stuff is any good (although some of it is undoubtably excellent) but because all their non-doctrinal stuff is utter crap. Axis aren't required to do that and that's a huge underlying imbalance in the game.
But why am I arguing? Talking about balance in CoH2 is a complete and utter waste of time.
9 Feb 2015, 05:17 AM
#83
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
And there in lies the problem.
I want to be able to use this doctrine I've spent real money on to beat the enemy, and not have to have an absurd amount of luck, as well as a dumb opponent, to win. Having to have all those things to make a doctrine work doesn't sound like balance to me.
Your attitude also seems to validate the belief that all Soviet non-doctrinal stuff should be crap "because callins". Yet Ost and OKW in particular receive units non-doctrinally that are more than a match for doctrinal hardware on the other side.
Soviets are forced to rely on doctrines, not because the doctrinal stuff is any good (although some of it is undoubtably excellent) but because all their non-doctrinal stuff is utter crap. Axis aren't required to do that and that's a huge underlying imbalance in the game.
But why am I arguing? Talking about balance in CoH2 is a complete and utter waste of time.
The reason soviets rely on smart doctrine choice is that is how the faction is designed. And did I ever say all non-doc soviet stuff should be shit? No, and actually you CAN counter Panthers with soviet non-doc if you use a little smarts/effort! My point is that you should pick a command to counter what you enemy is building/likely to build, IS2's just destroy all Axis medium armor 1 on 1 except the King Tiger. t34/85's are also extremely mobile and deadly.
9 Feb 2015, 15:26 PM
#84
Posts: 1484
I think panther should just be 145 fuel. It was perfect price before relic changed it...
NO, just NO. There is a reason why OSTH Panther is priced as it is now. The Panther spam was an abomination before and you would see 3+ panthers every single game. I even myself in one game build 4 Panthers. I would recommend lowering tech price and that is it.
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9 Feb 2015, 15:46 PM
#85
Posts: 431 | Subs: 1
NO, just NO. There is a reason why OSTH Panther is priced as it is now. The Panther spam was an abomination before and you would see 3+ panthers every single game. I even myself in one game build 4 Panthers. I would recommend lowering tech price and that is it.
Kappa you just yourself said to lower tech price which means you can get first panther for cheaper
so it's basicly same thing Keepo
9 Feb 2015, 15:51 PM
#86
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Kappa you just yourself said to lower tech price which means you can get first panther for cheaper
so it's basicly same thing Keepo
No, you won't becasue lower tech cost means higher building cost.
So cost is still same but you can skip PzIV without loosing fuel on teching.
9 Feb 2015, 16:34 PM
#87
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Regarding Soviet design :
If the Soviet faction is designed to rely on commanders more than on stock army, that is fine.
If the Soviet faction is designed to rely on commander call-ins to handle most Axis builds, then all Soviet commanders need to include a call-in tank. If a commander does not in fact have a call-in tank, it should compensate by giving other tools and advantages.
Some commanders should be allowed to be more situational than others (Urban Defense comes to mind). A niche here and there to open up the meta sometimes. But you can't have 6 "core" commanders and 20 "niche" commanders.
Axis heavies and (medium-heavy Panther) are a reality of this game, a constant in team games and most of the time even in 1v1s. Any faction / commander design must take this into account.
If there is a commander with whom you can't hope to win against Axis tanks, that commander needs to be redesigned, plain and simple.
If the Soviet faction is designed to rely on commanders more than on stock army, that is fine.
If the Soviet faction is designed to rely on commander call-ins to handle most Axis builds, then all Soviet commanders need to include a call-in tank. If a commander does not in fact have a call-in tank, it should compensate by giving other tools and advantages.
Some commanders should be allowed to be more situational than others (Urban Defense comes to mind). A niche here and there to open up the meta sometimes. But you can't have 6 "core" commanders and 20 "niche" commanders.
Axis heavies and (medium-heavy Panther) are a reality of this game, a constant in team games and most of the time even in 1v1s. Any faction / commander design must take this into account.
If there is a commander with whom you can't hope to win against Axis tanks, that commander needs to be redesigned, plain and simple.
9 Feb 2015, 16:46 PM
#88
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
I think panther should just be 145 fuel. It was perfect price before relic changed it...
And 20 fuel off KV-1, 34/85, EZ8 and dozer too as they are inferior to panther?
Or maybe you'd like to see T-70 cost as much as 222, because why not?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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