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Wehrmacht Ostheer

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23 Dec 2014, 19:46 PM
#41
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

This thread is turning out to be quite interesting :D
23 Dec 2014, 20:19 PM
#42
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 19:44 PMJaigen


Wrong on both accounts. Volks benefit the least from veterancy. they start with shitty kars and end with slightly less shitty kars. Fusiliers start with some of the best kars in the game and end with g43 and the highest long rang dps output of any rifle/ carbines (with only lmg;s can surpass them) in the game and remember death enemies do zero damage thats better then just being a punching bag like vet 5 volks.

And yes i agree that volks vet easily but only vet 5 is of relevance and you cannot proclaim that a vet 5 volks is a certainty. thats BS



Are you kidding me?

Volksgrenadier:

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

almost 50% less dmg intake, 40% sight range, 60% accuracy, 20% weapon cooldown + heal out of combat.

They will never be as effective as Obers (and I have never claimed that), or other more specialized OKW infantry, but bonuses they're getting from Vet are insane. Now look at the price and reinforcement cost. Please compare that to Rifles, Grens or Cons.
23 Dec 2014, 20:30 PM
#43
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Problems :

All MGs have some problem suppressing any unit in yellow cover, suppression needs to be fixed.

MG42 doesn't do enough damage.

Soviet and American vehicles come to early, Whermacht does not get an AT gun or Panzershreck fast enough. BAAAAAD. The early game would be so much more fun if it was infantry only and no god damn vehicles. Remember that Scout car used to be a problem and then everyone complains about kubels? Relic just still doesn't get it.


Since m3 wasnt a giant design fail, Relic designed a faction which can make more, and better light vehicles not much later which wrecks Ost. Kappa
(Well, Dodge comes earlier than m3 so GG)

Since the power of the lmg42 wasnt questioned enough, Relic designed a faction where any infantry can have BAR's or M1919's. MVGame

Also, another faction which can make manpower costing lmg's that are twice as good as the lmg under it. Why did the Germans make the lmg42 if the lmg34 is über alles? Silly Ostheer were fooled into thinking newer weapons were better.

Who again decided to expand the game by expanding broken concepts in the new factions? Good job.

All those years of experience with vCoH? Did it simply vanish along with THQ?
23 Dec 2014, 21:11 PM
#44
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

I play nearly only wehrmacht,and this in my view are the problems -

Main problem - Teching structure MP costs

USF does 2 things.It puts MP pressure directly by ceaseless rifle attacks ,on top of this u need to tech asap to fight off light vehicle which takes up moore mp.
If u must then invest in a 320 mp pak,thats even more crunch.Or 340 mp pzgren with 120 muni(no lmgs for grens)
On top of this he will get free unit for teching.
How do you compete with that?Just crushed by numbers.

Trademark unit mg4 2-value very limited.No dmg -enemy will kill u while suppressed by grenade or lmg..then whats the point?
Too easily avoided by smoke.
Unreliable suppression speed.
Bad mobility and risk of being taken.When its all of the above-why bother?

Snipers - Outcapped and terribly vulnerable once light vehicle hits field.

Faction has no mobility and just tries to stay alive desperately,defeating wehr is a walk for usf if player knows how to shift move rifles from diff angles.

I repeat main problem is teching cost and result difference in MP terms.
23 Dec 2014, 21:26 PM
#45
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

I'd recommend you to see how it is on the other side. Play USF, try it for yourself.
23 Dec 2014, 21:28 PM
#46
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130




Are you kidding me?

Volksgrenadier:

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

almost 50% less dmg intake, 40% sight range, 60% accuracy, 20% weapon cooldown + heal out of combat.

They will never be as effective as Obers (and I have never claimed that), or other more specialized OKW infantry, but bonuses they're getting from Vet are insane. Now look at the price and reinforcement cost. Please compare that to Rifles, Grens or Cons.


I know the stats mate i also that 60 % extra on low dps is still low dps. they are meatshields but meatshields do not win you the game.
23 Dec 2014, 22:20 PM
#49
avatar of the_onion_man
Patrion 14

Posts: 115

I'd recommend you to see how it is on the other side. Play USF, try it for yourself.


Are you kidding? I had to stop playing Ostheer 1v1s because they're simply not competitive against USF. And yes I tend to stomp Ost as USF.
23 Dec 2014, 22:27 PM
#50
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262

The trick with gren v rifleman engagements is to take them at range.

At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.

Also, just to mention that lmg42 outdamages m1919 at all ranges. Though they are very close.

And finally, to those claiming the mg42 doesn't do enough damage, try incendiary rounds.
23 Dec 2014, 23:47 PM
#51
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

The trick with gren v rifleman engagements is to take them at range.

At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.


It's a good thing Riflemen can't walk, or Grens would be in trouble.
24 Dec 2014, 00:04 AM
#52
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10627 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 19:46 PMBurts
This thread is turning out to be quite interesting :D


Please do not stoke the fires, eh!:)

There have been some hostile, close combat exchanges here, previously undiscovered by the Mods...
let us now continue forwards as (semi) friends, eh? ;)

back to topic...:unsure:


24 Dec 2014, 00:12 AM
#53
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 21:28 PMJaigen


I know the stats mate i also that 60 % extra on low dps is still low dps. they are meatshields but meatshields do not win you the game.


Vet3 Gren: 29.14/14.62/11.02
Vet4 Volks (no shrecks): 27.68/14.15/10.31

24 Dec 2014, 00:39 AM
#54
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Vet3 Gren: 29.14/14.62/11.02
Vet4 Volks (no shrecks): 27.68/14.15/10.31



Yeah why dont you calculate the dps of a gren squad with a lmg and a volks squad with shrek. the dps is simply not impressive.
24 Dec 2014, 00:43 AM
#55
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

The trick with gren v rifleman engagements is to take them at range.

At a range of 24 to 34 vanilla grens outdamage rifleman squads.

Also, just to mention that lmg42 outdamages m1919 at all ranges. Though they are very close.

And finally, to those claiming the mg42 doesn't do enough damage, try incendiary rounds.


outdps but not out hp the grens. also i looked on the stats American lmg's does more damage then the lmg42 upgrade
24 Dec 2014, 01:01 AM
#56
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

M1919's really need to be limited to one-per-squad though.
24 Dec 2014, 01:37 AM
#57
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262



It's a good thing Riflemen can't walk, or Grens would be in trouble.


I didn't realize that micro was a task reserved for allies only.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Dec 2014, 00:43 AMJaigen


outdps but not out hp the grens. also i looked on the stats American lmg's does more damage then the lmg42 upgrade


I must be looking at the wrong stats. M1919 vs mg42
24 Dec 2014, 01:51 AM
#58
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



I didn't realize that micro was a task reserved for allies only.



I must be looking at the wrong stats. M1919 vs mg42


well one is outdated then or wrong

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdGF4VURuYjVGZXlIN3ptbV8tbzRzN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
24 Dec 2014, 02:05 AM
#59
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1683 | Subs: 2

spreadsheet is out of date, tensai updates coh2 stats after every patch. Wooof doesnt always update all the values in the google spreadsheet.
24 Dec 2014, 02:38 AM
#60
avatar of synThrax
Donator 11

Posts: 143

With ost vs usf it is sometimeslike:
You need cover,a gren squad and a mg to deal with a squad of us soldiers.
Then another one arrives from different angle or it outcaps you.
You try to deal with them, but another arrives from a different angle or outcaps you.
You try to deal with them, but another arrives from a different angle or outcaps you.
If you still have grenadiers or something else left you also try to deal with them, but the leutnant arrives and laughs at you, knowing that a m20,m8,flak ht will come and crush you.

Exaggerated, but plenty of games went exactly that way. >:(

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