Played a game recently. Just got my first AT up..a PG squad with shreks. I had 2 PG squads (one without shreks) both in green cover behind a destroyed tank. Cannister shot before I even fired 1 shrek shot killed 6 of the 8 guys including the entire shrek squad.
:/
Canister shot
2 Dec 2014, 00:29 AM
#61
2 
Posts: 559
2 Dec 2014, 00:42 AM
#62
4 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Played a game recently. Just got my first AT up..a PG squad with shreks. I had 2 PG squads (one without shreks) both in green cover behind a destroyed tank. Cannister shot before I even fired 1 shrek shot killed 6 of the 8 guys including the entire shrek squad.
:/
If you know you are facing an M8, dont keep your units in cover with each other. Use one of the pgrens to bait and the other to volley it. I usually prefer to get a 222 to counter 1 m8/m20 though.
2 Dec 2014, 00:46 AM
#63
Posts: 1384
Won't help, an OP Vet1 ability is still OP.
It does delay it until opponents are better equipped to deal with it though.
2 Dec 2014, 00:56 AM
#64
2 Posts: 559
If you know you are facing an M8, dont keep your units in cover with each other. Use one of the pgrens to bait and the other to volley it. I usually prefer to get a 222 to counter 1 m8/m20 though.
Good advice. The problem at that particular moment was my units were rally pointed to green cover and of course when they arrived, that was the particular moment he cannister shotted me.
All of which detracts from the point that 75% of my guys died while in green cover which was directly between them and the unit that attacked. It was more a by product of the new "bunching" of units we got with the October patch but even so, cannister shot just shouldn't be that powerful vs. units in Green cover. It wouldn't happen if I was in a building....
2 Dec 2014, 00:57 AM
#65
Posts: 4928
It does delay it until opponents are better equipped to deal with it though.
And what about later on when it becomes a 'veterancy eraser'? Then USF gets the veterancy advances for little effort.
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2 Dec 2014, 01:04 AM
#66
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Hmm, is it possible to make the canister shot work like the flmaethrower in reverse? Give it the ability to gib squads in negative or no cover, but make it increasingly useless vs. units in cover. In green cover from the front it should do next to no damage.
2 Dec 2014, 01:27 AM
#67
1 Posts: 97
I don't know what's the point in even putting lots of effort into trying to salvage canister shot. Just remove the crit, reduce the muni cost, and make the greyhound a viable combat unit on it's own.
2 Dec 2014, 02:47 AM
#68
Posts: 2742
The canister shot is ridiculously powerful. Ridiculously so. Every game I use Greyhounds against OKW I strictly use them to cheesewipe Obers once they hit the field.
It kinda levels the playing field a bit.
The one thing they can't effectively deal with are shreked volks though. There's a short delay in the canister shot before it fires, and any sort of volks blob (so, standard fare) can usually wipe the Greyhound before any real damage is done.
Wiping obers with it is a very satisfying thing, I've got to say, especially if the player opened with kubels. And despite the munitions cost, there are very few uses of munis anywhere close to effective as canister shot.
It kinda levels the playing field a bit.
The one thing they can't effectively deal with are shreked volks though. There's a short delay in the canister shot before it fires, and any sort of volks blob (so, standard fare) can usually wipe the Greyhound before any real damage is done.
Wiping obers with it is a very satisfying thing, I've got to say, especially if the player opened with kubels. And despite the munitions cost, there are very few uses of munis anywhere close to effective as canister shot.
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2 Dec 2014, 03:10 AM
#69
Posts: 133
Bought the commander, tried it out a few times, works well.
Does an excellent job on ruining any blobbed infantry, but aside from that the vehicle itself is incredibly fragile and does a poor job of doing... anything.
Probably doesn't need to be nerfed, meta just needs to adjust to not blob infantry.
Does an excellent job on ruining any blobbed infantry, but aside from that the vehicle itself is incredibly fragile and does a poor job of doing... anything.
Probably doesn't need to be nerfed, meta just needs to adjust to not blob infantry.
2 Dec 2014, 05:12 AM
#70
Posts: 351
I agree that canister shot is really cheesy in it's current form. The problem, as mentioned, is that the M8 and really the rest of the commander are pretty bad with out it. I'd say make canister shot like white phosphorous in that it can't actually kill models, only do health damage, then buff the main gun and give it smoke so it's not a terrible combat unit.
2 Dec 2014, 05:18 AM
#71
Posts: 1384
I agree that canister shot is really cheesy in it's current form. The problem, as mentioned, is that the M8 and really the rest of the commander are pretty bad with out it. I'd say make canister shot like white phosphorous in that it can't actually kill models, only do health damage, then buff the main gun and give it smoke so it's not a terrible combat unit.
The pathfinders are baller, the extra vision is great and recon planes/arty are always useful.
The only thing I don't like is pathfinder arty call in is insanely expensive. Should be more like 80 munis.
2 Dec 2014, 05:29 AM
#72
Posts: 123
I don't know what's the point in even putting lots of effort into trying to salvage canister shot. Just remove the crit, reduce the muni cost, and make the greyhound a viable combat unit on it's own.
best solution
that doctrine needs a lot of work in general.
2 Dec 2014, 05:31 AM
#73
Posts: 351
The pathfinders are baller, the extra vision is great and recon planes/arty are always useful.
The only thing I don't like is pathfinder arty call in is insanely expensive. Should be more like 80 munis.
Yeah, I like those things too and I have fun with the doctrine when I play with friends but I don't think I could justifying picking it over another doctrine if I were trying my hardest to win. I like what Cruzz did to the commander in his mod. Nerfed canister, buffed the main gun, removed the AT gun from the para drop and made it 700mp with a 33% chance of getting each upgrade instead of the 66% for zooks that it is now. Commander feels so much more rounded.
Edit: oh and I think he gave the I&R pathfinders one sniper rifle like the regular pathfinders have.
2 Dec 2014, 05:33 AM
#74
Posts: 2561
Hmm, is it possible to make the canister shot work like the flmaethrower in reverse? Give it the ability to gib squads in negative or no cover, but make it increasingly useless vs. units in cover. In green cover from the front it should do next to no damage.It is already not very good if it's targets are in full green cover. The green cover seems to stop it and only inflict minimal damage.
2 Dec 2014, 05:41 AM
#75
8 Posts: 2470
iirc it has a flat 90% chance to kill any model it hits. doesn't matter where the models are or what they're doing, it's a flat %. cruzz posted in another semi-recent thread that ended up on canister, maybe it was his own.
and yes, if it was changed to a normal weapon you could give it a high chance to miss against different covers. which makes me wonder; i assume it's pretty good anti-garrison? i've never tried it though.
and yes, if it was changed to a normal weapon you could give it a high chance to miss against different covers. which makes me wonder; i assume it's pretty good anti-garrison? i've never tried it though.
2 Dec 2014, 05:48 AM
#76
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
iirc it has a flat 90% chance to kill any model it hits. doesn't matter where the models are or what they're doing, it's a flat %. cruzz posted in another semi-recent thread that ended up on canister, maybe it was his own.
and yes, if it was changed to a normal weapon you could give it a high chance to miss against different covers. which makes me wonder; i assume it's pretty good anti-garrison? i've never tried it though.
Thats a good idea, I'll try that. I also think we should test an idea for making the m8 have the same maingun as the stuart, but with an optional pintle MG upgrade for it. This way, we could nerf canister, without making the vehicle redundant, since its biggest problem is the hard time it has reliably killing infantry.
2 Dec 2014, 08:20 AM
#77
8 Posts: 2470
i'm pretty sure you can't give it a pintel without modifying the model. afaik greyhounds did actually have a .50 in a ring mount on the roof, which wouldn't be a bad idea, if relic would spend some artist time on it, which they won't.
2 Dec 2014, 12:27 PM
#78
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
It is already not very good if it's targets are in full green cover. The green cover seems to stop it and only inflict minimal damage.
20 range
50 munition
40 damage in a 3 radius with low penetration (~3)
Critical: Any infantry unit taking damage dies.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Dec 2014, 16:45 PM
#79
Posts: 952
Two games vs competent opponents (I'd definitely rate them as better than I skill-wise). Canister shells prove to be a great equalizer ofc, because who needs skill to point-click-wipe?
Quicksilver (USF RECON) vs StephennJF (WEHR ELITE TROOPS)
Quicksilver (USF RECON) vs Obscura (OKW SCAVENGE)
Quicksilver (USF RECON) vs StephennJF (WEHR ELITE TROOPS)
Quicksilver (USF RECON) vs Obscura (OKW SCAVENGE)
4 Dec 2014, 20:38 PM
#80
Posts: 403
I could say the same about the Walking stuka and the Sturmtiger.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
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