russian armor

Radical Early Game Changes

16 Nov 2014, 20:22 PM
avatar of OrionHunter88

Posts: 141

This is partially a balance discussion partially just a game design. I think OKW and USF need some pretty big tweaks. They are both quite different from the whermact/soviet in what I think is a bad way. I think its possible that a lot of the balance issues we are seeing can be traced back to the tech speed and availability of the WFA and vanilla factions and how they mix poorly or all too well in some cases. This certainly isn’t a complete suggested changelog (please let’s not talk about Jagdtiger/ISU152/B4 or the host of other broken units…)

OKW is argued to be the “best designed faction”. In a way that may be true, but I think their early game design just doesn’t really fit in with the other factions. I know, I KNOW – Asymmetrical balance. I know that different factions are different, but there has to be some continuity. Besides, the changes I’m suggesting would fall more in line with the faction’s ‘eliteness.

- MG34 swapped with Kubel wagon. Defensive tactics and Luftwaffe ground forces can now deploy kubel - instead of MG34 and MG34 takes the place of Kubel at OKW HQ.
- Changes to MG34 – Increase cost to 240, lower its dps but increase its suppression. Basically I’d - like it if it suppressed one burst slower than MG42 but had somewhat more DPS.
- Sturmpioneers now can now be equipped with Panzerschrek.
- Volksgrenadier and Panzerfusiler swap slots. Panzerfusiler now available from OKW HQ,volksgrenadier is now a CP0 call-in for breakthrough commander. They now have a passive panzerfaust, but no longer can upgrade to panzershcreck. Cost reduced to 220mp.

Volksgrenadiers should exist for the OKW – as a doctrinal spammable unit, similar to ostruppen. Panzerfusilers fit in much better with OKW’s primarily elite design. Panzerfusilers as I understand it were basically the recon units of panzer regiments – so it would make sense for them to be the core, starting infantry, of an elite vehicle oriented faction. It also grants OKW a light AT snare. The switch for sturms to upgrade to panzerschreck balances the panzerschreck out – it does not change its early availably, but it is now equipped on a more expensive and slightly more vulnerable (4 man) squad so it wouldn’t be as spammable.

For a faction that’s supposed to be based on adaptability and combined arms it sure is strange that the starting options are so limited for USF. By granting the USF 50 fuel at start they could immediately begin teching a LT. Or wait a bit and then start building captain. This would do so much to open up the USF early game. While it would grant access to powerful units like stuart/AA halftrack/M20 I nerfed their build times – either you’d have to get a captain to negate the long build times or just wait. To keep things a bit balanced the officers would no longer be deployed with special weapons – this also opens up the options for what units they can pick up. I also increased the tech cost for major to offset the increased early game fuel.
- Now starts with 50 fuel.
- Captain structure cost reduced to 70FU from 80.
- Major increased from 90 to 120 FU.
- Captain and LT are no longer deployed with weapons. As a result the cost of the units are both - - reduced to 280 (for subsequent call-ins if they are killed).
- M20 building increased from 45 to 70s.
- AA halftrack build time increased from 60 to 90 seconds.
- M5 ‘Stuart’ build time increased from 50 to 90 seconds.
- Cooldown for WC51(mechanized commander) would be doubled (I think it’s 30s now, so 60s after this - change) – to avoid spam now that there is more starting fuel for USF.

Clearly these changes would adversely affect soviet/whermact. On the one hand their teching is a bit more costly, but usually opens up more options than OKW/USF. I’m simply suggesting a slight decrease in teching cost for both factions. This may not be the proper answer, but it’s the best I’ve got for now.

Battlephase tech all require 10 less fuel for each battlephase.

All base structures cost 10 less fuel.
16 Nov 2014, 21:11 PM
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Didn't read yet but this caught my eye

OKW is argued to be the “best designed faction”.

By fucking who, blobmasters? :crazy:
16 Nov 2014, 21:11 PM
avatar of HardworkingBulldozer

Posts: 117

Remember folks, this game is not still in development. It's a finished product, and threads like this could be created for entertainment and speculation purposes only.

Again, Company Of Heroes 2 is not in development and relic is not asking for any design ideas and fan inputs.

Hopefully your ideas could be used for COH3, at least you can hope.

Your "unit swapping" ideas are nice imo though.
16 Nov 2014, 21:30 PM
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658

Panzerfüsiliers as replacement for Volks?

Sweet jesus - that'd be awesome.
16 Nov 2014, 21:36 PM
avatar of HardworkingBulldozer

Posts: 117

This guy probably has lost a few games against a decent USF player and then decided to make this thread, "yeah, Imma redesign the whole game instead of L2P"

16 Nov 2014, 21:54 PM
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

I have better idea - replace kubel with kt and volks with obers for same popcap.
16 Nov 2014, 22:29 PM
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

M20 rush every game, every day. Not that now is different, but it would be coming 4 minutes earlier, RIP ostheer.

Meanwhile the OKW fight back with a fucking enormous blob of fusiliers. And will win against anything except perhaps a well-executed multiple M20 rush. Soviets won't have the slightest chance against the fusiliers+mg34 combo and neither will a captain USF.
16 Nov 2014, 22:57 PM
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
I dont know...
16 Nov 2014, 23:23 PM
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

This sounds great.

You may as well make sherman T1 and 20FU for USF though, thus saving time by making the game last 3 mins instead of 5.
16 Nov 2014, 23:56 PM
avatar of StonedAssassin

Posts: 63

Make a mod. I'd try it out with the changes you suggested
17 Nov 2014, 00:41 AM
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

Less damage and more suppression for mg's? no thx.
17 Nov 2014, 01:31 AM
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Combine Bazookas and BARS into one upgrade. Make the third upgrade a "Light Vehicle" upgrade that unlocks the M20, Flak Track, and Stuart.

Also. Give Obers MP40s.
17 Nov 2014, 01:34 AM
avatar of Goldora
Donator 11

Posts: 22

Maybe you guys should work at Relic. Link here

17 Nov 2014, 12:37 PM
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

- MG34 swapped with Kubel wagon. Defensive tactics and Luftwaffe ground forces can now deploy kubel

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