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PAK 40 is overperforming when compared to other AT guns

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7 Oct 2014, 17:45 PM
#1
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Ok, so lets look at all of the at guns


The 57mm, decent rate of fire, 4 man crew and needs to use munitions to have good penetration and has a great vet 1 ability.


ZIS-3 abysmal rate of fire, good penetration, bugged 6 man crews that make it very squishy and easy to kill, has a costly but decent barrage and has a okay vet 1 ability.


Raketenwerfer - kind of crappy at vet 0 bad range, misses quite often but with vet it gets very very good. To balance out it has vet 5, can retreat and be put inside buildings.


PAK - 40 - Incredible rate of fire, good penetration and a 4 man crew, by far the best at gun out there. It provides green cover and because of the incredible strenght of LMG grens and allies having generally more short-mid range oriented troops, these things are incredibly hard to kill, so their 4 man crew is not that big of a disadvantage.








Ok, so we can see, that all AT guns have weaknesses and strenghts, but i think the PAK 40s strenghts far outshine it's weaknesses.

2-3 of these will completely shutdown all armor, and even 1 can do great things.

Not to mention TWP will spell death for any stationary target.


I think it's rate of fire needs to be toned down slightly to be more inline with other AT guns, because right now, it completely dominates every single other at gun in the game and is heaps better than every single AT gun out there.


Because right now, the PAK 40 simply offers a huge advantage in armor vs armor fights when compared to other AT guns.

7 Oct 2014, 17:46 PM
#2
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Yea, its really good
7 Oct 2014, 17:51 PM
#3
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

Ridiculously good unit.
7 Oct 2014, 17:52 PM
#4
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

7 Oct 2014, 17:53 PM
#5
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

I believe all AT guns should have a standardised rate of fire like around 3.3-3.7 seconds. Not sure about the Rak43 seeing that it's so cheap and a slower rate of fire might make sense for Rak43 only.
7 Oct 2014, 17:59 PM
#6
avatar of Ducati
Benefactor 115

Posts: 164

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 17:45 PMBurts
Not to mention TWP will spell death for any stationary target.


What is TWP???

How it compares to other AT guns is irrelevant.

How it performs within the faction design is. Is it too effective at its job? Debatable, I personally think its in a good spot.
7 Oct 2014, 18:03 PM
#7
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 17:59 PMDucati


What is TWP???

How it compares to other AT guns is irrelevant.

How it performs within the faction design is. Is it too effective at its job? Debatable, I personally think its in a good spot.



TWP stands for target weakpoint. And if we bring the faction debate it, then i don't see why ostheer needs to have the better AT gun, their armor is hands down better than USF and slightly better than soviet armor and LMG grens at the moment are the best infantry unit in the game.

So i don't really see why PAK 40 should be so incredibly effective.
7 Oct 2014, 18:04 PM
#8
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

The vet1 ability of the ZIS3 was nerfed to point of useless. It costs 35 munitions for nothing! The LOS gain is simply not existent.

Sorry but i had to say it. The only good thing that the ZIS3 had is gone thanks to the balance wizards from Relic :snfPeter:
7 Oct 2014, 18:07 PM
#9
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Of course Pak 40 seems like overperforming if we compare it to.... raketenwerfer. But wait, it's not like pak 40 is overperforming. Raketenwerfer is a little shitty!
7 Oct 2014, 18:12 PM
#10
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Of course Pak 40 seems like overperforming if we compare it to.... raketenwerfer. But wait, it's not like pak 40 is overperforming. Raketenwerfer is a little shitty!


LOL Ciez predicted this. People denying the fact that the pak is overperforming

Ciez wins the internet today! :clap:
7 Oct 2014, 18:16 PM
#11
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

The only one that stands out is the Raketen to me. PaK is a monster, sure, but once vetted the ZiS and 57mm (with ability and/or AP rounds) can also dish out the hurt. The Raketen seems to have crap aiming time, crap accuracy, and hits terrain for some reason. I,d buff it a bit in return for a price increase.

What we could maybe do is reduce PaK's vet 3 bonus a bit. When it reaches that point it can shred even an IS-2 to pieces in record time.
7 Oct 2014, 18:17 PM
#12
avatar of groconrs

Posts: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 17:45 PMBurts

I think it's rate of fire needs to be toned down slightly to be more inline with other AT guns, because right now, it completely dominates every single other at gun in the game and is heaps better than every single AT gun out there.


+1
7 Oct 2014, 18:26 PM
#13
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

Best AT-gun ingame yes. OP no.
7 Oct 2014, 18:28 PM
#14
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
Of course Pak 40 seems like overperforming if we compare it to.... raketenwerfer. But wait, it's not like pak 40 is overperforming. Raketenwerfer is a little shitty!


It's not just in comparison to the Rakaten, Johnny, it's in comparison to all the AT guns.

I completely agree that the Pak40 is overpreforming. The fact that it's the most cost efficient armor counter in the game AND that it can be built 5 mins into a match is reason enough to believe it's way too good for it's cost.

But the thing is, if it gets nerfed, dealing with the much more tangible Soviet armor will become a lot more problematic, as the Soviets have several tanks which at max range will shrug off Pak40 shots rather reliably.

So I think something needs to be done that keeps the Pak40's role against heavier soviet armor, but makes it no so easy to chew threw Shermans and Jacksons like a hot knife through butter, as quoted from the Pak40 bulletin.
7 Oct 2014, 18:37 PM
#15
avatar of MadeMan

Posts: 304

I think rather than nerfing the Pak-40 they should buff the other guns.

Or in the ZiS case, fucking fix it already!

ZiS - remove the 25% damage penalty whoopsie & give it back the old Tracking Ability

Raketenwerfer - remove the 'cancel retreat' whoopsie & give it back it's old veterancy rate. Nerf Vet 5 if you have to, but give it a chance to get vet before being BTFO.

US AT Gun - I don't have USF so I can't comment. it seems okay at the moment thanks to Take Aim and it's enormous range.
7 Oct 2014, 18:38 PM
#16
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4926

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 17:45 PMBurts
I think it's rate of fire needs to be toned down slightly to be more inline with other AT guns, because right now, it completely dominates every single other at gun in the game and is heaps better than every single AT gun out there.

I'd rather all other AT Guns get toned up to be like the PaK 40.


jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 17:53 PMsteel
I believe all AT guns should have a standardised rate of fire like around 3.3-3.7 seconds. Not sure about the Rak43 seeing that it's so cheap and a slower rate of fire might make sense for Rak43 only.

The Raketenwerfer also has less range and negative crew cover.
7 Oct 2014, 18:41 PM
#17
avatar of TheMightyCthulu

Posts: 127

I like where the PaK40 is. It's the best AT gun in the game, but some unit has to be. I don't think that necessarily makes it "overperforming".

Also, the Raketenwerfer is available straight away. It's the weakest gun in the game, but also the earliest and cheapest. That's its advantage. It can counter early, light armour, before some of the best armour in the game comes out (OKW late game) which clearly supplant it.

I personally like where the AT guns are all at, at the moment.
7 Oct 2014, 18:52 PM
#18
avatar of Khan

Posts: 578

According to this logic, all t0 infantry (grens, rifles, volks, conscripts) should have the same DPS and ROF. :loco:

There's a big difference between something being OP and being the best.
7 Oct 2014, 19:11 PM
#19
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Just buff the ZiS and it all should gravy. Pak is good but I think it is balanced
7 Oct 2014, 19:41 PM
#20
avatar of Casparitus

Posts: 154 | Subs: 2

Personally I find Ostheer T2 useless. Only reason to build it is for the PaK. Can not say the same thing about Soviet T2. Awgh, had a few stuff to add but way to tired atm. Sry.
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