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COH2 Vanilla armies (x-post from Cynthia)

7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PM
#1
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Hey COH2 fans! I wanted to get some discussion going regarding the original armies in our beloved franchise. Would love to hear your thoughts on where you’re at, wish-list items and so on.

Ground Rules:

• Keep it clean, classy and constructive.
• If you disagree with someone else in the thread, don’t argue with them. Simply explain your position and why it differs. Focus more on offering facts behind your opinion; let your own thoughts speak for themselves.
• No insults, no ‘****’ comments, no ‘LuLWHUT L2P’.
• All other forum rules apply, per normal.


Now that we've got the boring 'rules stuff' out of the way (Who wrote those rules, anyways? That person is such a square. Wait….) let’s get into the meat and potatoes of the conversation.

1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?
2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?
3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?
4. Is there something you struggle with the most?
5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)

And any other specific thoughts you want to share with us. Non-constructive comments will be deleted, so keep the rules in mind.

Cheers!

Link
7 Oct 2014, 15:31 PM
#2
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?
Bugfixes

2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?
Bugfixes

3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?
Bugfixes

4. Is there something you struggle with the most?
Bugs

5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share?
Yes

And any other specific thoughts you want to share with us. Non-constructive comments will be deleted, so keep the rules in mind.
Fix the game plz
7 Oct 2014, 16:07 PM
#3
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
complete soviet overhall.
7 Oct 2014, 16:40 PM
#4
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2453 | Subs: 21

1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?
Yes, the viability to try some strategies that aren't meta and can actually be effective against meta-type strategies.
2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?
Nope
3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?
Make Irregulars better.
Make t-34/76s have the option in t3 to gain a universal upgrade of the t-34/85 cannon.
Give the Partisan doc a call-in option
Make Penals effective units at long range
Do something about the Kubel Vs Merika'
Make tier units as effective as call-ins
For example: Make the Su-76 have a faster reload time, but worse AOE so that it's more effective against inf. As well as increase dmg/penetration so that it stands a slight chance against panthers.
4. Is there something you struggle with the most?
Yes, trying un-meta strats
5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)
"When going for an Irregular strategy, Irregulars fail to do enough damage or survive during the late game due to their 1 Armor and weak health, so improving both would be nice." "NKVD doctrine is 100% munition reliant, so if the enemy holds all the munition points your boned, so possibly changing doctrines like that would be nice" "Su-85s have a slow rotation rate and are very map dependent, so improving the rotation speed and penetration of SU-85s might make them more enticing to use." etc....
And any other specific thoughts you want to share with us. Non-constructive comments will be deleted, so keep the rules in mind.
Try and figure out a way to fix bugs in the game more efficiently and sooner than say every month around patch time. Figure out a way to better balance the WFA with the Vanilla armies so that we don't have armies that are at quite a disadvantage at certain stages of the game due to vet, inf type, early vehicle abuse, late game vehicle strength etc...
7 Oct 2014, 16:44 PM
#5
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1677 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:31 PMRomeo
Bugfixes

Bugfixes

Bugfixes

Bugs

Yes

Fix the game plz



Best post.
7 Oct 2014, 16:46 PM
#6
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:31 PMRomeo
Bugfixes

Bugfixes

Bugfixes

Bugs

Yes

Fix the game plz
Bugfixes all the way :lol:

1. Conscript weapon upgrade for late game
2. BAR close to mid range strength for all LMGs
3. 100 range Pak43, 85mm AA gun for Soviets, artillery AoE enlargement to be mire effective against weapon crews, Soviet mortar son't fire every 7.5 seconds and conscript weapon upgrade
4. Rifle grenade not launching bug and USF grenade not being throwned.
5. Weapon crews and infantry in cover would die easier if grenades are actually thrown/launched.

Specific thoughts:
can't think of anything else.
7 Oct 2014, 17:29 PM
#7
avatar of TheMightyCthulu

Posts: 127

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm


1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?


I like to play as Wehrmacht and Soviets. The uselessness of T4 in any type of competitive online play is a real bummer. A whole roster of units is basically never used or seen. I feel there needs to be a re-work to somehow make T4 useful and an actual option for Soviets and Wehrmacht.

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?


I'm not sure. I like the US ability to get out and repair their own vehicles -- it would make sense if all factions could do that, but it would take away from the uniqueness of the US. I don't think there's anything in specific one faction has that I'd like another to have; I want the factions to feel different.

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?


Make T4 useful. With that, people would have more options for different strategies and builds. That's what I really wish to see for the Soviets/Wehrmacht. And some different Panzer variations for the Ostheer. ;) I love panzers! Maybe have a new Panzer Doctrine that gives some different types you could call in, that coincide with T3 timing-wise so as not to upset any type of early game balance. I don't care if they have similar stats, I just want to see new unit models/skins!

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
4. Is there something you struggle with the most?


Facing US blobs, especially in the early game. I find playing against the US my least favourite thing to do in this game in 1v1. Mostly because I'm tired of the US strategy of blobbing and sending out an AA HT. It's boring. It can be countered when done right, but if you slip up the zerg runs you over. It's an uninteresting army relationship, IMO. I guess it's by design, though.

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)


I have a hard time dealing with US blobs when they choose the Elite Infantry commander. Riflemen already have an early game advantage versus the Wehrmacht, then tack on possible veteran-2 Riflemen, and it can be a quick game. I don't find that fun. It'd be easier if I had more skill, I guess, I'm just about .500 in online play, but it could be remedied by work on the commander on the US side.
7 Oct 2014, 18:23 PM
#8
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

When I play Soviets I never build the SU-76. I build all the other units, but the '76 is a bit 'point not found' for me. It doesn't seem to be good at anything much, especially in team games.

I'd like to see it as a nippier micro-StuG, perhaps.

Kingdlol needs looking at, should it be doctrinal?

Jagdlol should cost more or get whacked with nerfbat.

More skins for WFA please.

Fix weapon crew bugs.

Fix USF heavy AT issues (Jackson cheaper or even more of a glass cannon, like Firefly in vCoH?)

The raketenwerfer needs more werf imo

You still haven't fully sorted out PzGrens and they remain very squishy



7 Oct 2014, 18:27 PM
#9
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?

Conscripts don't scale as well as other Infantry do, they have no upgrades and they scale badly and Wehrmacht doesn't have a 'beefed up' version of their standard tank, a-la T-34-85 / M4A3E8 (Panzer IV Ausf. H could fit the profile for such a vehicle).


jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?

- Forward retreat points, OKW has a medical truck that they can set up, USF can create make-shift versions by combining the Captain and Ambulance, but SU and WM do not have the option at all. You could add them to WM's Command Bunker and SU's Forward HQ ability (the most logical choice, on the downside it's doctrinal and uncommon).
- Better Repairs. USF Crews / Assault Engineers get these at Vet 2, OKW gets them with Minesweeper upgrades. But while SU and WM get these at Vet 2 as well, Vet 2 is much harder to attain with these units.
- OKW's God-teir artillery barrages (also Close the Pocket), this is something the Soviets should have, historically massive artillery barrages were their forte.
- Higher quality models. Not a big deal, but the quality gap is noticeable in some of the units, like the MG on the US / SU Half-Tracks, or the OH Panzer IV vs OKW Panzer IV (which is underpowered and insanely rare, despite looking great).


jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
Do you have a specific wish list for your army?

I'd love to see Panzer IV Ausf. H's, also longer barrels on the T-34/85, it's too short (nitpicky I know, but it is). Soviets need reworked so that cheese tactics become less effective, in favour of actual strategic tactics. USF needs a late-game artillery unit, though these didn't exist (aside from the very rare Calliope, which as a Tank doesn't fit the profile of CoH2's glass artillery trucks), maybe a radio car that can call in barrages? Jackson I'd like to see reworked into more of a 'light Panther', because 240 damage or 0 damage on a glass chassis is far too random for my tastes.


jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:14 PMNapalm
Is there something you struggle with the most?

- SU has difficulty countering blob-tactics in the early game, because the Maxim is weak and so are the supporting Conscripts.
- OKW blobs are a whole 'nother level of ridiculous. As the suicidal blob charges continue, Volks gain Vet, Obers or Falls join the fray, and eventually they become hardened enough hard-counter any direct fire unit you have, even KV-8's and IS-2's are threatened. This brings us to:
- Tiger II's and Jagdtigers are nearly impossible to destroy, both because of their massive armour, health, and damage, but also because of the Panzerschreck+Ober blobs that rush to their aid if they are even slightly threatened.
- Assault Grenadier spam, sounds silly, but they just walked over my Maxims and Conscripts, and this simply shouldn't happen, MG's should be the bane of an assault unit/blob's existence.
7 Oct 2014, 18:35 PM
#10
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 608

I liked the suggestion made in other threads of swapping the t70 to tier 4 and the su76 to tier 3.

The t70 is like a baby t34 and the su76 a baby su-85 (besides its art ability) making them redundant alongside their big brothers.

The 76 would act as a good support for t34 (bait the enemy tanks with the t34 and draw them onto your 76 ). Whilst the t70 would make a good scouting and infantry protection unit for the lumbering 85 though it might need a fuel decrease to make you bother building such a fragile unit late game.

Otherwise I feel guards might need to be slightly better anti-inf and I get very frustrated by penals ignoring satchel throw instructions
7 Oct 2014, 18:42 PM
#11
avatar of RunToTheSun

Posts: 158

Dont say t-70 is useless pls . Dont say KT is OP please . Dont say Jagd is OP please . ( i would like to a nerf to it that it cant shoot through buildings , but still through terrain )
7 Oct 2014, 19:07 PM
#12
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Dont say t-70 is useless pls . Dont say KT is OP please . Dont say Jagd is OP please . ( i would like to a nerf to it that it cant shoot through buildings , but still through terrain )


but why
7 Oct 2014, 19:21 PM
#13
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

T-70 and SU-76 switch, while I agree that soviet tiers should be restrictive there is a big problem in that they have no real cohesion within the tiers. Su-76 and T-70 are both made redundant by their tier mates and past tech timing changes. Switching them would give them good cohesion with their while still maintaining the tier's specialized and generalist roles.
7 Oct 2014, 19:26 PM
#14
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281

Weapencrews stop retreating really need to be fixed.
7 Oct 2014, 19:33 PM
#15
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

I really want to make this awesome effort post but I'm just wasted. I don't really see Relic taking any action on the ideas/recommendations.
7 Oct 2014, 19:39 PM
#16
avatar of pantherswag

Posts: 231

Idk if Relic will even check this, but I would like the vet bonuses and the commanders of the VCoH2 armies to be re-examined.

WF vet abilities are awesome and really add new stuff that the unit can do and be. For example, poison nades for falls, perma-sprint on USF officers, self-healing on paras, gaining sniper cloak on pathfinders etc.
Compare that to the vast majority of VCoH2 unit vet bonuses. Medic pack? Tripwire flare? F-ing Counter Barrage? Cuh'mon sawn. Almost every WF unit has at least one sweet vet reward, where there are only a few VCoH2 units that have interesting or worthwhile vet abilities. Armored skirts are cool, Oorah on Penals are cool... Annnnnd that's about it. Other vet abilities are either extremely weak, or powerful but boring. TWP, Sprint, Incendiary rounds are all powerful abilities, but compared to how cool shit like getting an extra squad member for REs, cloak on raketen, concussive nades on sturms?!? Like come on, you get grenades on your pio squad, that is fucking sweet.

And there a bunch of old commanders that are basically worthless now that they are matched against WF armies. The elephant is pointless against USF which has no heavy armor to speak of, and it is completely redundant in team games while the Jagdtiger exists. Irregulars, M42 light AT, DShKa are all pointless as they are currently.
7 Oct 2014, 19:39 PM
#17
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10627 | Subs: 9

But....you started this thread.....you're the Bear leader......you're Canadian..... set a good example, please! :) (If you,as OP, want me to lock this, I will of course bow to your request)
7 Oct 2014, 19:56 PM
#18
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 15:31 PMRomeo
Bugfixes

Bugfixes

Bugfixes

Bugs

Yes

Fix the game plz


+1
7 Oct 2014, 20:25 PM
#19
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1179 | Subs: 1

1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?
I feel that the Soviets need a total rework, especially the callin meta. Soviets need the ability to go with doctines like NKVD which don't provide callins, and still be able to win. (Speaking of NKVD, I have been using it and it is decent with conspam and 2 munitions caches).
2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?
I would like to see a total rework of the vet 1 bonuses of both the soviets and the Ostheer. Especially the soviets, who don't have a single useful vet1 ability with the exception of sprint and possibly trip-wire mines.
3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?
I think the soviets need to have a more viable nondoctrinal late game. Relying on spamming t34/76s is not all that great due to the meh AI they have and the meh AT they contribute. You always end up needing to outnumber late game german armor 2 to 1. The soviet T4 in general also needs to be reworked to actually fill a role. Curently, it is like the soviet T2, filled with useful units when the building is first built, but with bad scalability. Su85s can't penetrate anything above a p4 reliably, and su76s which are useful on barrage but shitty elsewhere. Katyushas are good, no complaints there.
4. Is there something you struggle with the most?
When I play as soviets, my bigget trouble lies in not relying on callins.
5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)
Narp.

Also, this post is written by a player who mainly plays germans now because of the lackluster soviet non-cheese army.
7 Oct 2014, 20:54 PM
#20
avatar of Unshavenbackman

Posts: 680

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2014, 19:33 PMNapalm
I don't really see Relic taking any action on the ideas/recommendations.


How could they when its a chaos in here. No consensus at all. The number of suggestions are as many as there are replies.
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