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russian armor

USF .50 HMG could use an improvement

29 Sep 2014, 02:37 AM
#41
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2014, 20:09 PMCruzz
Moving .50cal to T0 while replacing its vet sprint with AP rounds (the MG42 kind rather than the horrible DSHK version) would do a hell of a lot to help both USF early game variety, vulnerability to cheese and viability of this unit.

Then they could implement the M2 60mm or M1 81mm mortar team (which already exist in the gamefiles so adding them should be relatively trivial, compared to creating an entirely new unit) into the lieutenant tier and USF would suddenly look a lot more well rounded...


I do think it's the best solution. An MG that you need to unlock with 50 fuel, and a sub-par AND overpriced one at that, is just not attractive. There are very few situations where I built one and wouldn't have been better served by more rifles, or saving the MP for vehicles.

Plus, US needs some early game variety. Having to build 4x rifles before anything else is just boring for everyone involved. The MG could also fix the US's incredible vulnerability to the Kubel somewhat.
29 Sep 2014, 03:19 AM
#42
avatar of lanciano

Posts: 210

yep moving the M2HB would make usf so much more appealing and would help stop the i win king kubel rush.
29 Sep 2014, 06:36 AM
#43
avatar of SexualSalamanca

Posts: 46

I watch quite a bit of replays, and play a good number of 2v2s and I would say the only problem would be the kubel can start suppressing too quickly and the puma needs a cost increase to 80 fuel. Other than that, its entirely L2P, the U.S. early game is by far the best if okw doesn't use the cheese that has been yet to be fixed. BTW stop thinking US only faces okw, think about what this would do to US vs ostheer early game, that shit just got balanced.


No one said the US only faces OKW. But if you're acting like OST would have much more trouble countering a T0 .50 cal then you're sadly mistaken.

29 Sep 2014, 06:43 AM
#44
avatar of Leepriest

Posts: 178



No one said the US only faces OKW. But if you're acting like OST would have much more trouble countering a T0 .50 cal then you're sadly mistaken.



But..but... Germans should not encounter any opposition in any part of the game =(.
29 Sep 2014, 07:05 AM
#45
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2014, 18:34 PMVaz
I'm sorry I can't take you serious. I have known people that clown around a lot and then you never really know when they are telling the truth or still clowning, because what they say are funny either way.

Speaking of funny, I've been paying more attention to this unit and building it even more often, and it's hilariously bad. A pak40 destroyed it in one game. Napalm is right too, I can't get the crew not even the main gun in cover ever. For such a decent weapon my axis opponents never pick it up when decrewed, why is that? Worst HMG in the game with the highest price.


I am probably playing other game with the same name if I'm saying 50 cal' has an instant supression and a good damage. I am looking at what these guys are saying related to weak supression rate and I am like.... :huhsign: Are we talking about the same HMG? The one from the lieutenant building (american T2)?

Oh, and by the way, I like playing USF I think they're cool. Much cooler than soviets, altough not that strong.
29 Sep 2014, 08:08 AM
#46
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 43

To fix some misconceptions...

.50 cal has lower suppression than maxim at max range. .50 cal also has lower damage than maxim at max range. .50 cal has higher aoe suppresion than maxim, but slightly weaker than MG42. .50 cal has very good scaling of both damage and suppression as you get closer to your target, but because it has the weakest HMG crew in the game by a huge margin, taking advantage of that is practically impossible.
29 Sep 2014, 08:23 AM
#47
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2014, 08:08 AMCruzz
To fix some misconceptions...

.50 cal has lower suppression than maxim at max range. .50 cal also has lower damage than maxim at max range. .50 cal has higher aoe suppresion than maxim, but slightly weaker than MG42. .50 cal has very good scaling of both damage and suppression as you get closer to your target, but because it has the weakest HMG crew in the game by a huge margin, taking advantage of that is practically impossible.


Fair enough but I still got the impression that is supressing faster than MG42.
29 Sep 2014, 13:27 PM
#48
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2014, 08:08 AMCruzz
To fix some misconceptions...

.50 cal has lower suppression than maxim at max range. .50 cal also has lower damage than maxim at max range. .50 cal has higher aoe suppresion than maxim, but slightly weaker than MG42. .50 cal has very good scaling of both damage and suppression as you get closer to your target, but because it has the weakest HMG crew in the game by a huge margin, taking advantage of that is practically impossible.


Exactly.
29 Sep 2014, 14:39 PM
#49
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2741 | Subs: 1

I've found it very underwhelming, indeed. I am always relieved to see American support weapons. Ostheer was designed to counter 6 man Soviet crews, so when those 4 man crews hit the field, I am already sitting pretty.


I feel like USF has only OKW in mind in design, and not so much Ostheer.
29 Sep 2014, 15:09 PM
#50
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 857

What I don't get is why the Ma Deuce is the only MG the US gets. The MG support role was filled by the M1919A4 (medium) and later in the war the M1919A6 was introduced as an LMG (wooden shoulder stock, lighter barrel, connected bi-pod) to reduce the amount of crew needed and get rid of the need to carry and set up a tripod.

The M2 was a "heavy" weapon and in TO+Es is attached to AT/AA battlaions for Anti-Air use. It has greater range than the lighter guns (M1919, Vickers, MG42/34) used at the time and would have been more devastating against lightly armored vehicles and units in "conventional" cover (houses, etc, not bunkers) even at a long range, though its conventional AI utility would not be as great as the faster firing lighter MGs.

The in-game M2 doesn't fulfill its historical role or that of the much more ubiquitous M1919A4. Historically it would be a much more powerful weapon that could pose a real threat to light vehicles and infantry in green cover, and do it at great ranges, but less likely to hit infantry in blobs (though anything it hit would probably die). I think People would buy such a weapon from a non-T0 building.

But without a true M1919A4-like weapon the USF is missing a support MG.

29 Sep 2014, 15:13 PM
#51
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1966 | Subs: 5

Yes I think it is a shame that such a heavy caliber machine gun does not do respectable damage to light vehicles. AP rounds ability would be very nice! I don't think moving to T0 is really necessary though.
29 Sep 2014, 15:36 PM
#52
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2556 | Subs: 1

I don't really understand how you are supposed to counter a highly mobile Kubel with a static HMG, it's pretty well the exact opposite.

Someone developping this idea in the topic can bring me some light on it?
29 Sep 2014, 15:57 PM
#53
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1966 | Subs: 5

well kubel most dangerous when holding still. How kubel will hold still if MG is shooting at it? You maybe can't kill it but you force it to reposition if you have MG. That why maxim spam is not bad vs kubel at all.
Vaz
29 Sep 2014, 17:30 PM
#54
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 896

well you won't for smarter players, but right now people are doing shit without paying attention.
29 Sep 2014, 17:43 PM
#55
avatar of willyto
Patrion 15

Posts: 115

The crew of this USF MG die like flies. Even Grenadiers suppressed can kill your crew gunner over and over.

Not to mention that it makes stupid pathing when retreating which means you already lost your HMG even if your retreated on time.
Vaz
29 Sep 2014, 17:57 PM
#56
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 896

One OKW player crewed my .50 yesterday and I did what my opponents do to me. I just ran up on it from the front and like clockwork, the crew died before I got suppressed. What a joke. A joke that I promptly re-crewed.
29 Sep 2014, 18:30 PM
#57
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4393

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2014, 15:09 PMAvNY
What I don't get is why the Ma Deuce is the only MG the US gets. The MG support role was filled by the M1919A4 (medium) and later in the war the M1919A6 was introduced as an LMG (wooden shoulder stock, lighter barrel, connected bi-pod) to reduce the amount of crew needed and get rid of the need to carry and set up a tripod.


Yeah I'm quite puzzled that they picked the M2 as USF's machine gun, the M2 wasn't something that was carried around by infantry like that. They even have the M1919 modeled as well as the stats for it, and the model is beautiful.



The 2 unused models with the in-game M2 on the left.
29 Sep 2014, 18:49 PM
#58
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1248

If u did move it to t0 you have to have something to replace it. I like the concept of it being kind of an early counter to kubal but you still need to make it scale to the t0.
29 Sep 2014, 23:56 PM
#59
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Donator 11

Posts: 3040 | Subs: 14



Yeah I'm quite puzzled that they picked the M2 as USF's machine gun, the M2 wasn't something that was carried around by infantry like that. They even have the M1919 modeled as well as the stats for it, and the model is beautiful.



The 2 unused models with the in-game M2 on the left.



#RelicLogic
30 Sep 2014, 00:40 AM
#60
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4393

tru.dat

As a fan of Band of Brothers, I'm not only disappointed that they didn't use the M1919, but also that the M2 sounds so weak compared to BoB's.

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