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Is OKW the strongest faction currently?

22 Sep 2014, 13:24 PM
#41
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6


The major threat of the early available tanks (t34, T70) is their capacity to engage, chase and eventually run down entire squads if the proper AT is not there. That's just not an option against a properly fielded OKW army.


Yes! 100%. Well said. Dealing with OKW is never about actually engaging cost effectively and winning engagements because of the insane DPS and how forward HQ/heal means being forced off the map isn't very punishing. It generally just comes down to how many squads can you wipe on retreat by catching a lone squad with your blob or by chasing it down half way across the map with a light vehicle which you can do easily because of lack of fausts and 4 man squads. Even then, Volks can't 1v1 a light vehicle in the open because of pushing. But then the longer the game draws out, there stops being potential for chasing down squads lone squads or getting caught by a blob. If you've wiped 2+ squads by the time tanks hit the field you're still in the game, if not you will probably eventually just lose unless the OKW makes a mistake.
22 Sep 2014, 13:25 PM
#42
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

The price of a unit does not justify unit superiority.

An OKW player of equal skill to an Allied opponent will win every time.


1v1, 2v2? Higher? Starting with 2v2, I wouldn't agree....Especially while my mate who playes so rarely reached 180 rank with Soviets on random 2v2 while with OKW he's struggling somewhere around place 2000....

22 Sep 2014, 13:27 PM
#43
avatar of DerBaer

Posts: 219



It helps you massively because your teching structure is fast, free and cheap. You can get all your buildings down and a repair bunker and a med bunker and a super anti-everything post for a grand total of 150 fuel.

Since OKW got buffed to 100% fuel their muni income has been overflowing compared to what they need to spend it on.


How is teching "free" with OKW? Also, munitions income was raised to 100%, not the fuel. How can I even take the rest of your post serious? Talking about hopping on the bandwagon, dude...



And about all your "l2p, you are doing it wrong", maybe you are doing it wrong?
22 Sep 2014, 13:31 PM
#44
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Yes! 100%. Well said. Dealing with OKW is never about actually engaging cost effectively and winning engagements bleed wise because of the insane DPS and how forward HQ/heal means being forced off the map isn't very punishing. It generally just comes down to how many squads can you wipe on retreat by catching a lone squad with your blob or by chasing it down half way across the map with a light vehicle which you can do easily because of lack of fausts and 4 man squads. Even then, Volks can't 1v1 a light vehicle in the open because of pushing. But then the longer the game draws out, there stops being potential for chasing down squads lone squads or getting caught by a blob. If you've wiped 2+ squads by the time tanks hit the field you're still in the game, if not you will probably eventually just lose unless the OKW makes a mistake.


With OKW you cannot overextend by capping teritory the way you can do it while playing with allied.
A vehicle loss for OKW is hugely punnishing compared to an allied vehicle loss. So you have to be extra-carefull with your light or heavy vehicles, and tides can turn verry quickly. If you wiped 2+ squads of cons for instance, this is not so punnishing for a soviet player. All my soviet games showed me that punishment for squad loss is somewhat low.
22 Sep 2014, 13:44 PM
#45
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
Well looks like this thread turned into a L2P fest, so I'm just gonna leave my 2 cents.

Kubel needs serious nerf. Other than that, I would say they are the strongest faction but only because almost all the faction's weaknesses are outweighed by their strengths. So I think perhaps increasing the severity of these weaknesses could make them more manageable to play against. I don't really play as them much, but I play against them plenty. And in team games, the ramifications of having vehicles like the Stuka zu Fuss and Jagdtiger are insurmountable.
22 Sep 2014, 13:46 PM
#46
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 13:31 PMJohnnyB

If you wiped 2+ squads of cons for instance, this is not so punnishing for a soviet player.


Against OKW is not punishing to lose 2 conscripts squads.

What is really punishing for the soviet player is making conscripts initially. Losing them is even beneficial as you don't have to pay their upkeep.
22 Sep 2014, 14:10 PM
#47
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

OKW is the best faction in all game modes for sure. I don't know if the kubel needs a nerf so much as a redesign. It has to stay viable for chasing and killing soviet snipers without completely shutting down USF. There are plenty of suggestions on how to achieve this.
22 Sep 2014, 16:52 PM
#50
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 13:21 PMJohnnyB


Please try some 1v1 with OKW.


I have! the kubel spam in this game is so per-found, it pathetic and not funny anymore. Kubel is winning games for other wise bad players.

Elite infantry (that for some reason) dont need to upgrade to get lmgs like every body else.

Early Flak HQ in a 1v1 is gg. its area denail can shut down flanks. forcing allied player to attack the same spot. It needs a penetration nurf. hurts medium tanks WAY too much.

Not to mention that falls can spawn from ambient buildings.

The puma has way too many "get out of jail free cards" smoke, speed, small target size, aimed shot.

Okw have the strongest infrantry in-game, strongest tanks, and strongest arty (STUKA)

It ridiculous how good this faction is....




And relic! Since now that OKW has 100% munitions. For crying out loud, make them have to pay for their LMG's (im looking at you! obers,and falls)

22 Sep 2014, 17:38 PM
#52
avatar of RunToTheSun

Posts: 158

I always seem to float a lot of manpower in the early-midgame, even after getting an ISG. Should I just keep accumulating it until I can pump out 2 obers?
It is probably the strongest faction yeah but I really miss a medium tank than can kill infantry as OKW in my play.


Spam volks , problem solved . also i would not recommend you build more than 1 Ober . unless its a teamgame
22 Sep 2014, 17:44 PM
#53
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10627 | Subs: 9

"Awkward fucknut" and "L2P" are expressions we do not need. 2 posts invised.

Please try to respond to each other, without descending into the vernacular. :)

Using swear words tends to diminish a post,rather than enhance it, and please bear in mind that many here do not like to read such expletives. Therefore they get deleted.

Back to topic.



22 Sep 2014, 17:49 PM
#54
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

I think the Problems with the OKW are two fold

Firstly They have the best infantry in the game especially because of their veterancy. Their units perform within reason until they get to vet 4 or 5, then they clearly overperform to ridiculous levels. They have units with 4-5 combat bonuses where as other factions get only 2 combat bonuses with vet. The infantry advantage is an enourmous thing in all game modes and giving it to the faction as a default is a bit unfair

Secondly, Asymetrical balance is OK but one team having a clear advantage at different stages of the game is not. Whether it be the USF early game or the OKW lategame, factions should all have an equal chance to win at all stages. Making one stronger earlier or later is neither balanced nor fun. Nobody wants to be in a situation where they are determined to win at a particular point in time, not because of skill or good play.

These are the things about the faction that i would like to see addressed most
22 Sep 2014, 18:34 PM
#55
avatar of Midconflict

Posts: 204

Totally agree with Hon3ynuts on both points. I don't mind if a fiction is a little better at one stage of the game or a another, but every faction should have a chance to win at those stages. Not a slime one either. In the end it should be which ever player plays the best should get the win no matter the time of the game. The balance before WF came out was like this the whemack were stronger late game, but the soviet still stood a good chance of beating them. Same for Whemack in the early game.

I also agree that the other factions either A. need a buff or B. a redesign to bring them more in line with the OKW. OKW don't need a nerf, because this would only make the game more stale I think. In the end there are still a fun faction to play, but they are still to good when compared to the other faction who have way too many design problem, useless units, and weaker units.
22 Sep 2014, 19:46 PM
#56
avatar of EquinoxFox

Posts: 10

It definitely is the strongest faction right now, especially in team games. As Allies you have huge problems on big, open maps. They can harass you badly, then park their flak truck on your fuel. From there it´s just stalling until the heavy tanks come out. And again - unlike OKW - the Allies have no adequate artillery to unroot camping Axis. In the mean time build a shrek blob and 1-2 Obers.

The Allied inf won´t be able to compete and there is no Allied tank that can REALLY put the hurt on him. T34s/Shermans just don´t kill inf quickly enough. The only exception is the KV8, but if you get it, you will face a Panther 30 seconds later. And if you still clinge on to the game, the JT denies all your vehicles and it´s gg. Me and my mate have dropped from rank 60 to 200 because we lost against a few guys who played just like that. There is just no point in playing Allies right now.
22 Sep 2014, 19:52 PM
#57
avatar of wayward516

Posts: 229

When I play Soviet, I'd just like the ability to choose 3 faction buildings. Being restricted to 2 in the average game feels limiting.

As USF I have no idea what the good build orders are, except Ass Engies. The t1 units seem good, but I feel incredibly vulnerable to Kubels and fast enemy vehicles if I go t1.
22 Sep 2014, 19:52 PM
#58
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
There is just no point in playing Allies right now.



Its a sad point in time to play coh2.. :(
22 Sep 2014, 21:22 PM
#59
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

OKW's biggest strenghts is that, well, it lacks weaknesses.

Soviets have to choose what units they can build, both via tech and doctrine, making them able to access half of their roster at best in an average game. They also suffer from piss poor core infantry and lackluster end-game if they don't have call-ins. These weaknesses are plugged by overpowered units (snipers, ISU, M3, Maxim and IS-2 to a lesser extent) but they're stil lextremely dependant on cheese.

US has a very micro-intensive late game and lacks variety early game, and while their basic infantry scales well they have to sink tons of ressources into them.

Ostheer needs to play defensively early game, has to sink a lot of fuel into teching costs to get good vehicles, has so-so doctrines overall, and kinda lacks an offensive punch unless they get Tigers.

OkW, however? What real weakness do they have? Their early game is crazy powerful thanks to Sturms and Kubels. They have access to strong vehicles right off their first tech building, which comes free in fuel. Their AT is basically second to none, what with early AT guns, shreck on basic infantry, Puma, Jagdpanzer, and Panther, without going into silliness like the Jagdtiger. They have a huge roster of really powerful elite infantry, including the best non-doctrinal infantry unit in the game. Their doctrines are all good save Fortifications. Their late game is of course amazing, and they have the only non-doctrinal superheavy in the game as well as the crazy bonuses of vet 5 on all their units, making even Volks real powerhouse late game.

Sure, in theory the 66% fuel thing slows them down, but fuel conversion is a thing, and their teching costs are the lowest in the game to reflect that disadvantage, and IMO the superior performance of most of their vehicles more than compensates for it anyway. Not to mention their elite infantry can allow them to hold the map enough to mitigate the effect of that.

That's not to say they are invincible of course. But in order to win against OKW player(s) with similar competence, US has to end the game early, and Soviets have to cheese. When I play as OKW, I always feel like my opponents have to outplay me or cheese, because I kinda win by default thanks to all my amazing units.
22 Sep 2014, 21:40 PM
#60
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3504 | Subs: 1

Not the strongest, just the easiest to play with due to strong elite units. When you understand what each unit is made for you have in hand every cards to win the game vs any opponent at the same level. The absence of downside is problematic but 100% Relic's fault and due to when they decided to remove munition penalty. That was their downside right before that patch: having few munition resources and having to chose wisely in what to invest.

Let's see the next patch, they're probably thinking hard on it at this time!
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