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10 Sep 2014, 08:18 AM
#61
avatar of Flamee

Posts: 710

Corp.Shephard did a nice post there.

I wish Relic would check this now to give some advice.

It just seems unbelievable that this has been tested and agreed to let go to the game. Even more amazing is that the first videos of these commanders were from early this year. That just supports the theory that they have been tested for a long time.

Wha...why...how?
10 Sep 2014, 08:23 AM
#62
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

This artillery is broken imba.
10 Sep 2014, 08:57 AM
#63
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

Nerf will come when everybody have bought the commander.
10 Sep 2014, 09:49 AM
#64
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

Probably to get people to buy it before nerfing it
.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 08:57 AMGreeb
Nerf will come when everybody have bought the commander.



I don't doubt this one bit, but is it even legal to do that, isn't that considered manipulative? I mean sure there is a line that reads "game experience might change", but that is well understood as changes to unintended problems or general improvements etc. This along with many other examples (elite, soviet industry, etc) comes across as nothing more than a scheme to make more money out of customers.
10 Sep 2014, 09:58 AM
#65
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

Just build a cache on a cut off to protect it.


Solid advice that fully takes into account how a cache stops people from capping a sector for roughly 5 seconds in the mid to lategame of team games. 5 seconds should be enough for anyone to escape this artillery.
10 Sep 2014, 10:20 AM
#66
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 09:49 AMAbdul
.




I don't doubt this one bit, but is it even legal to do that, isn't that considered manipulative? I mean sure there is a line that reads "game experience might change", but that is well understood as changes to unintended problems or general improvements etc. This along with many other examples (elite, soviet industry, etc) comes across as nothing more than a scheme to make more money out of customers.


Realistically no one is going to sue them over 3-4 Dollar. Even if that would be illegal, it will be also probably impossible to prove that they had such a plan in the first place, even if it would be no surprise for me.

The only thing that can be easily done is to stop buying the DLCs.
10 Sep 2014, 10:25 AM
#67
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 10:20 AMgokkel


Realistically no one is going to sue them over 3-4 Dollar. Even if that would be illegal, it will be also probably impossible to prove that they had such a plan in the first place, even if it would be no surprise for me.

The only thing that can be easily done is to stop buying the DLCs.


After seeing this commander I am reminded of all their twisted ways and regret buying WFA even if for only $6.
10 Sep 2014, 11:25 AM
#68
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 798

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 10:20 AMgokkel


Realistically no one is going to sue them over 3-4 Dollar. Even if that would be illegal, it will be also probably impossible to prove that they had such a plan in the first place, even if it would be no surprise for me.

The only thing that can be easily done is to stop buying the DLCs.


Uh, McDonald's got sued for a million dollars over a $1 cup of coffee that stupid person didn't think was hot and spilled on themselves. I live in America you can sue anyone for anything here....
10 Sep 2014, 11:28 AM
#69
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

This commander tells you everything you need to know about relic. Simple as that really.
10 Sep 2014, 11:30 AM
#70
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542



Uh, McDonald's got sued for a million dollars over a $1 cup of coffee that stupid person didn't think was hot and spilled on themselves. I live in America you can sue anyone for anything here....


Well ok, maybe in the land of limitless possibilities you can sue them :)
10 Sep 2014, 12:26 PM
#71
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896



Uh, McDonald's got sued for a million dollars over a $1 cup of coffee that stupid person didn't think was hot and spilled on themselves. I live in America you can sue anyone for anything here....



That was a legitimate case because McDonald was brewing coffee at crazy temperatures. They did it because they used very cheap coffee beans and the only way to get enough flavor from them was to brew them at something like 180f+. And by the way the lady sustained third degree burns from the coffee. Did you get that? Third degree is the highest possible burn, and from what a cup of coffee, who would have imagined. It's just that the media made a frenzy about it and painted the victim as a villain.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 11:30 AMgokkel


Well ok, maybe in the land of limitless possibilities you can sue them :)


That's actually a good thing about their system, no matter how silly, they take every case seriously, or at least how it was. Now whether your case will win or not depends on evidence and strength of argument. Usually most of the silly cases get thrown out.



well now I guess I need to go back to the original topic
10 Sep 2014, 12:45 PM
#72
avatar of Showtaro

Posts: 121

That video actually made me sad.
10 Sep 2014, 12:52 PM
#73
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

The actual solution could be to make it cheaper, but make it only target one sector. Like sector arty that only works on disconnected enemy territory, but is also relatively inexpensive to balance against the relative difficulty in using it.
10 Sep 2014, 12:58 PM
#74
avatar of MilkaCow

Posts: 577

Most people here seem to not even know what this artillery does and how it works.

It is definitely the strongest artillery in the game (from the pure damage potential), but also the hardest to use. Similar to "Sector artillery" or the "Offensive Artillery" or however it's called for the OKW Sturmofficer commander it has certain requirements that need to be met in order to be able to use it.
In this case the artillery targets cut-off enemy sectors and will barrage the units inside those for a long time as long as the requirements are met. It does not work on neutral sectors and AFAIK not on additional territory (meaning if your enemy captures another sector adjacent to the cut-off ones, this one is not getting barraged). Reconnecting the territory instantly cancels this ability. I'm not sure anymore, but AFAIK it takes 10 seconds for the artillery to kick in.
The commander itself has several units/abilities that can help with this artillery as the stuka decapture or the infiltration squads.

It's an incredibly high-risk/requirement, high reward ability that's probably fine 1v1, but can be quite OP in the bigger teamgames. With the bigger sectors in those it's harder to evade the artillery and harder to reconnect territory. Besides that it's the most map-dependent commander to this date.

Edit: Caches do provide a certain protection, but only in smaller games. As they delay for a bit and the stuka divebomb requires 3 hits to take them out they usually make it pretty obvious what the opponent is trying to achieve and allow ample time to react. In bigger games this time might not be enough due to the bigger space each sector covers.

Edit2: Regarding that coffee discussion. Most coffee that's made by machines is actually done with water slightly below 100°C. It's heated to boiling temperature and this expands it and causes it to be pressed through the actual ground coffee and in the cup. By the time it hits the coffee it's usually already cooled down a few degrees and even more when it exists the machine. There are a few coffee machines that work with temperatures above 100°C by having a completely isolated brewing system that is pressurized, but even for those by the time the actual coffee leaves the machine it's below 100°C and quickly cooling. Fresh coffee is hot and people usually want fresh one as it starts to get sour when it cools off.
10 Sep 2014, 12:58 PM
#75
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 798

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:26 PMAbdul



That was a legitimate case because McDonald was brewing coffee at crazy temperatures. They did it because they used very cheap coffee beans and the only way to get enough flavor from them was to brew them at something like 180f+. And by the way the lady sustained third degree burns from the coffee. Did you get that? Third degree is the highest possible burn, and from what a cup of coffee, who would have imagined. It's just that the media made a frenzy about it and painted the victim as a villain.




That's actually a good thing about their system, no matter how silly, they take every case seriously, or at least how it was. Now whether your case will win or not depends on evidence and strength of argument. Usually most of the silly cases get thrown out.



well now I guess I need to go back to the original topic


Not the best example, but it is early for me, but the idea is that anyone can sue anyone and it gets really stupid...:(
10 Sep 2014, 12:59 PM
#76
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:26 PMAbdul

That was a legitimate case because McDonald was brewing coffee at crazy temperatures. They did it because they used very cheap coffee beans and the only way to get enough flavor from them was to brew them at something like 180f+. And by the way the lady sustained third degree burns from the coffee. Did you get that? Third degree is the highest possible burn, and from what a cup of coffee, who would have imagined. It's just that the media made a frenzy about it and painted the victim as a villain.



A bit of an off topic but I have to reply.


Sorry, but no.
Unless coffee is instant (which I don't consider to classify as a coffee) you can't brew it without using boiling water and boiling water is 100 degree Celsius or whatever crazy unit you're using in US.
This cause only shows how absurd US law system has become with all those insurance and patent claims.
It looks like common sense is long forgotten in this country.
Obviously that's not the case and what we can see here is smart people exploiting the system and the lack of adjustment from jurisdiction or government.

Also third degree burn are caused by temperature much higher than that of boiling water, and for obvious reasons water can't go higher than 100 C. Third degree burns involves changes to the tissue structure and its carbonization (charring) mostly caused by open flame.
10 Sep 2014, 13:24 PM
#77
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41


It is definitely the strongest artillery in the game (from the pure damage potential), but also the hardest to use.


Auto-aim, lethal against all targets barrages over the largest possible area of any artillery in the game is hard to use?

I think what you want to say is that it requires the most preparation (have to cut off a territory and have something to prevent it from being recapped before starting) but after that it's about as close to an I-win-button as there is right now.
10 Sep 2014, 13:24 PM
#78
avatar of ZombieRommel

Posts: 91

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 09:58 AMCruzz


Solid advice that fully takes into account how a cache stops people from capping a sector for roughly 5 seconds in the mid to lategame of team games. 5 seconds should be enough for anyone to escape this artillery.


Yep... 1 roaming shreck blob or any medium tank = dead cache in about 5 seconds.

Maybe pqumsieh only plays 1v1.
10 Sep 2014, 13:30 PM
#79
avatar of armatak

Posts: 170

It is a good way to punish people that continuously overextend and forces an even higher level of tactical gameplay.
10 Sep 2014, 14:32 PM
#80
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4300 | Subs: 2

relic really got to think about how these interesting and 'big' investment abilities will affect something else than 1v1. these kinds of things' (cut off arty, jagdtiger, durable ambient building spawners, wc51 last patch etc etc) imbalance-ness just gets exponentially bad in 2v2+.
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