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Post 7/31 Patch Katyusha Test (see vid)

1 Aug 2014, 05:00 AM
#21
avatar of Rogers

Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1

That is what happens at max range. That is about what it should do. You want it to do better, move it closer with support. Biased video, and does not even show any real problem.
1 Aug 2014, 05:06 AM
#22
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 05:00 AMRogers
That is what happens at max range. That is about what it should do. You want it to do better, move it closer with support. Biased video, and does not even show any real problem.


Do you even know what you are talking about?
1 Aug 2014, 05:08 AM
#23
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 01:38 AMwooof


why else would it be at the back of your base?


It's because of all that armor and HP the unit has. Don't really have to protect it now do we.
1 Aug 2014, 05:11 AM
#24
avatar of Sarantini
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Posts: 2181

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 05:08 AMNapalm


It's because of all that armor and HP the unit has. Don't really have to protect it now do we.

Drive forward while scouting with any unit. Select your barrage to fire somewhere, hold shift and click somewhere in your base. tada
1 Aug 2014, 05:32 AM
#25
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 05:08 AMNapalm


It's because of all that armor and HP the unit has. Don't really have to protect it now do we.


This and also because before 31/7 patch it was doing insane damage at max range. In this video it's firing at about 80-90% range.


Drive forward while scouting with any unit. Select your barrage to fire somewhere, hold shift and click somewhere in your base. tada


You can get closer but it depends on the map. Like on langers south you can do that with little risk. In the north it's risky. Also, katyusha takes a while to fire it's full load. If you go closer you might get in range of a stuka just waiting for the opportunity.

Also if you get closer the firing cone will decrease, sometimes that is not desirable.
1 Aug 2014, 05:57 AM
#26
avatar of malecite

Posts: 139

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 05:00 AMRogers
That is what happens at max range. That is about what it should do. You want it to do better, move it closer with support. Biased video, and does not even show any real problem.


How is his test video biased exactly?

Secondly the whole "fire it at close range" argument is equally nonsensical.

The KAT is an AREA DENIAL WEAPON.

Read that again before you start to make ridiculous claims about how you think it should be used vs how it actually functions.

First off it makes an extremely identifiable noise, shows up on the minimap, and now has absurd RNG chances to do something or maybe nothing to blobs.It also takes a full 20s to apply its damage vs the werfer or walking stuka that drop all of their instantly. Secondly the axis have fals that can pop out of a building and insta kill your expensive mobile arty piece as well as counter barrage on the stuka which will instantly destroy it. Oh and remember all those tanks with nitrous that can one shot it? There is a reason it is usually fired from max range.

So firing the damn thing at medium to close range is a laughable option to compensate for its pathetic post patch performance. It simply isn't useful or worth building for the chance to maybe take out a few infantry models.
1 Aug 2014, 06:44 AM
#27
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Invised one post for flaming.
1 Aug 2014, 07:15 AM
#28
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Tbh, it's performance is fine, but i dont think it needs that 110 cooldown.
1 Aug 2014, 07:53 AM
#29
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 07:15 AMBurts
Tbh, it's performance is fine, but i dont think it needs that 110 cooldown.


I kind of like the idea of longer cool down, so that they can't be spam-fired. Now one has to choose targets more carefully.

What is the cooldown on stuka?
1 Aug 2014, 08:00 AM
#30
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 07:53 AMAbdul


I kind of like the idea of longer cool down, so that they can't be spam-fired. Now one has to choose targets more carefully.

What is the cooldown on stuka?



120.
1 Aug 2014, 08:12 AM
#31
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

But Stuka is more expensive so you can have 2 Katyushas while OKW player will probably never get 2 Stukas unless team game or at great advantage over opponent.
1 Aug 2014, 08:14 AM
#32
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

But Stuka is more expensive so you can have 2 Katyushas while OKW player will probably never get 2 Stukas unless team game or at great advantage over opponent.



You can get a stuka earlier than anyone can get a katyusha 8~ minutes.
1 Aug 2014, 08:19 AM
#33
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

But Stuka is more expensive so you can have 2 Katyushas while OKW player will probably never get 2 Stukas unless team game or at great advantage over opponent.


200/50+240/120+360/85+360/85 = 1160/340

200/40+390/100+390/100 = 980/240 (or /343 if you want to pretend you can't use the muni transfer if you want to rush the things).

1 Aug 2014, 08:20 AM
#34
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 08:14 AMBurts



You can get a stuka earlier than anyone can get a katyusha 8~ minutes.



So you get one extra salvo?


jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 08:19 AMCruzz


200/50+240/120+360/85+360/85 = 1160/340

200/40+390/100+390/100 = 980/240 (or /343 if you want to pretend you can't use the muni transfer if you want to rush the things).



I wasn't comparing tech cost.
You numbers don't show slower fuel gain for OKW player. You can only buff last 100 fuel, when the building is already done. Soviet player can buff its fuel gain as well getting fuel caches.

OKW player won't build 2 Stukas because he needs this fuel elsewhere while it is quite common for Soviet player to build 2 Katyushas.

1 Aug 2014, 08:23 AM
#35
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

But Stuka is more expensive so you can have 2 Katyushas while OKW player will probably never get 2 Stukas unless team game or at great advantage over opponent.


If I am not mistaken it costs 40fu to get the building and 100fu for stuka. Compared to Sov they need to spend 40 + 120 teching and then 85ful for katyusha. Even at 2/3 fuel income OKW can get stuka first, especially that the same building that makes the stuka has the convert ammo to fuel option.
1 Aug 2014, 08:24 AM
#36
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

1 Aug 2014, 08:31 AM
#38
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896



I wasn't comparing tech cost.

OKW player won't build 2 Stukas because he needs this fuel elsewhere while it is quite common for Soviet player to build 2 Katyushas.



See now you are going in the wrong direction. To make this short, a soviet player needs his fuel to make other things too, not just katyusha. For example, he needs fuel to make sc m3 early in the game. He needs to research at grenade or molotive. He needs to get a tank, etc. On most maps, when a sov player goes 2 katyusha, the OKW player can punish him for that.
1 Aug 2014, 08:55 AM
#39
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752

Rocket Artillery Vehicles really should be doing less, overall, than Field Artillery pieces.

Especially considering the mobility of the former.

I think a rough benchmark of Field Artillery is a good thing to keep in mind when considering how "good" Rocket Artillery Vehicles finally even out to be.
1 Aug 2014, 09:00 AM
#40
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2014, 08:31 AMAbdul


See now you are going in the wrong direction. To make this short, a soviet player needs his fuel to make other things too, not just katyusha. For example, he needs fuel to make sc m3 early in the game. He needs to research at grenade or molotive. He needs to get a tank, etc. On most maps, when a sov player goes 2 katyusha, the OKW player can punish him for that.



I got planty games played as Soviet so you don't have to educate me on this.
If you're trying to say Soviet player can't field more than one Katyusha than my own experience and recent games I played state otherwise.

If you're comparing tech cost again then I'll repeat that I wasn't referring to the tech cost nor I find it relevant to how many units a player can field. It only determines how fast they will arrive.
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