Login

russian armor

Maxims vs the OKW

PAGES (9)down
20 Jul 2014, 19:37 PM
#81
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Why support teams are still able to cap territory?
Simple solutions for all the problems.

No unit spam should be this effective and I am saying not only about maxims right now but every kind of spam should be countered heavily and unfortunately this is not the case with CoH2.

Combined arms should win every time provided similar skilled opponents are involved. Right now it's actually the opposite.
You can beat more skilled opponent with easy using cheese tactics.
20 Jul 2014, 19:51 PM
#82
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971


Combined arms should win every time provided similar skilled opponents are involved. Right now it's actually the opposite.


The issue here is if soviets have another option besides maxim spam to win against OKW. Because every single game I try to go T1 or make more than a couple of cons I get overwhelmed by the HUUUUGE OKW infantry spam that can reinforce and heal in the middle of the map. (At least in 2vs2 games)

Even maxim spam is very vulnerable to a good flank, a lucky ISG shoot or a rushed Flak HT.

Lately, all my soviet games consist in maxims + shocks + T34, and not by my choice but because any other build equals to lose in less than 15 minutes.
20 Jul 2014, 20:04 PM
#83
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2014, 16:38 PMgokkel


It really isn't that accurate from my experience. Maybe more accurate than Wehrmacht mortar, but that is hardly an accomplishment and after all it costs as much as two.


You're supposed to let it auto attack or right click attack a unit. Barrage isn't as accurate as auto attack and attack.
20 Jul 2014, 20:58 PM
#84
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2014, 19:51 PMGreeb


The issue here is if soviets have another option besides maxim spam to win against OKW. Because every single game I try to go T1 or make more than a couple of cons I get overwhelmed by the HUUUUGE OKW infantry spam that can reinforce and heal in the middle of the map. (At least in 2vs2 games)

Even maxim spam is very vulnerable to a good flank, a lucky ISG shoot or a rushed Flak HT.

Lately, all my soviet games consist in maxims + shocks + T34, and not by my choice but because any other build equals to lose in less than 15 minutes.


No it doesn't.
Against good player you have no chance as he will secure flanking routes or change the position when in danger.
Maxim spam is a easy win for SU against OKW as you probably know already because you're using this as well. maxims, ZiS and whatever into T3. You don't need to worry about tanks against OKW, do you? Volks get overwhelmed, ISG is not killing maxims fast enough and Stuka is a 1,5 min cd, provided it will actually kill a Maxim.
20 Jul 2014, 21:44 PM
#85
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971


Maxim spam is a easy win for SU against OKW as you probably know already because you're using this as well. maxims, ZiS and whatever into T3. You don't need to worry about tanks against OKW, do you? Volks get overwhelmed, ISG is not killing maxims fast enough and Stuka is a 1,5 min cd, provided it will actually kill a Maxim.


Maxim spam is not an easy win for Soviets in 2vs2 at least.
Bigger maps make impossible to cover all flanking routes. And HMG doesn't supress all squads into firing-range like vCoH hmgs did. Two or three units charging straight into a maxim can easily pass throught and kill the crew.

Maxim spam only gives a brief advantage in 2vs2 team games which is neutralized the moment the OKW player has a considerable number of infantry units to simply push throught your less defended line.

Probably in 1vs1 the situation is inverted and you can seize a big part of the map with only two or three maxims and mines, but in my experience going heavy T2 in 2vs2 is always a game lost against a OKW player.
20 Jul 2014, 21:45 PM
#86
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

(Double post, sorry)

EDIT: Btw, the few games I've won spamming maxims were due to a lucky ZiS positioning that destroyed my enemy first Flak HT or thanks to mines and such.

20 Jul 2014, 22:22 PM
#87
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2014, 21:44 PMGreeb


Maxim spam is not an easy win for Soviets in 2vs2 at least.
Bigger maps make impossible to cover all flanking routes. And HMG doesn't supress all squads into firing-range like vCoH hmgs did. Two or three units charging straight into a maxim can easily pass throught and kill the crew.

Maxim spam only gives a brief advantage in 2vs2 team games which is neutralized the moment the OKW player has a considerable number of infantry units to simply push throught your less defended line.

Probably in 1vs1 the situation is inverted and you can seize a big part of the map with only two or three maxims and mines, but in my experience going heavy T2 in 2vs2 is always a game lost against a OKW player.


Can you please stop defending this?
It is easy game against OKW. Especially in 2v2. In 1v1 is hard but in 2v2 is like walking in the park. Especially on maps with lots of building.
I've lost many games due to it and I could have seen that my opponent is worse than I am (not saying I'm a pro) and I still lost the game because I was pushed back so hard it was impossible for me to come back no matter what.

They shouldn't be able to cap territory and it would be fine. You can have as many Maxims as you want. CoH1 was perfect in that regard. Have no idea why they changed this.
20 Jul 2014, 23:00 PM
#88
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971



Can you please stop defending this?
It is easy game against OKW. Especially in 2v2. In 1v1 is hard but in 2v2 is like walking in the park. Especially on maps with lots of building.
I've lost many games due to it and I could have seen that my opponent is worse than I am (not saying I'm a pro) and I still lost the game because I was pushed back so hard it was impossible for me to come back no matter what.

They shouldn't be able to cap territory and it would be fine. You can have as many Maxims as you want. CoH1 was perfect in that regard. Have no idea why they changed this.


In that case, please post a replay where a maxim spam gets succeful in 2vs2 against OKW, maybe that way I can learn how to do it.
20 Jul 2014, 23:21 PM
#89
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Pick any from the replay pool. Plenty of choice.
21 Jul 2014, 04:12 AM
#90
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

They do too much damage, their DPS should be brought down to the level of the MG34.
21 Jul 2014, 04:27 AM
#91
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1679

Maxim Spam hard win vs OKW? Lol, you must be godlike, because Im struggling against this tactic everytime.
Volks? Nope, gets supressed.
Sturmpios? Nope gets supressed.
Kubel? ...lol...
AA? He will have a zis behind their maxims in 1min
Puma? Useless
Stuka? I have been succesful with this in some maps, but the cooldown is just too long, anyways I think this unit is balanced.
ISG? too much RNG dependant for me.


The only way to defeat maxim spam is doing a succesfull flanking. And that is not possible every game.
21 Jul 2014, 10:53 AM
#92
avatar of nordkind
Donator 11

Posts: 59

Is anyone aware of the fact that the maxim can only suppress one squad at a time?

Even if they are standing right on top of each other the maxim will only suppress one squad and the other can stand right in the firing arc and pad the back of the crawling other squad.

You can simply rush a maxim with 3 squads and its easy fast food. Even two squads are enough from the front if your oponent is not paying attention.

How is that no problem?

What are soviets supposed to do against blobs?
21 Jul 2014, 10:57 AM
#93
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

It doesn't matter as there is more than one maxim around. Last game I flanked, killed the crew and than salvaged 3 maxims and it still wasn't enough.

21 Jul 2014, 11:55 AM
#94
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

As always, grass is greener in the other side of the fence.

How many maxims consider you a spam. 3? 4? maybe 5?
How can you play a big map like Hurtgen Forest with 4 maxims if as you said, each maxim has to be supported by another one to be effective against more than one unit and unflankeable? That makes only 2 points secured for the soviet player.

As nordkind said, maxims can only suppress one squad at a time. The very moment a sturmpio gets close you can't even retreat because they kill the guy carrying the maxim and it gets stuck in the place.

Obviously maps like Rails & Metal are much more easier to play as a maxim spammer, and in 1vs1 games must be a pain in the ass to deal against maxims too. But maxim spam is not the "I WIN" strategy, everytime, everywhere, that some of you try to make us believe.

And accepting that maxim spam is a hard strategy to beat as OKW, what other option has a soviet player currently to play against them? Cons can't do shit to OKW infantry, penals the same; M3, although a bit more useful, gets raped by Sturmpios high DPS, and snipers are too fragile to be a reliable strategy.

I, as a soviet player, am the first to complain about being obliged to make maxims if I want to have a chance to win the game. And I'd wish that penals could be viable against OKW.

21 Jul 2014, 12:58 PM
#95
avatar of S73v0

Posts: 522

Maxim spam is stupid, it's counterable but it's too easy to pull off where you can just A-move maxims everywhere and it's too effective with almost no risks involved.
22 Jul 2014, 15:35 PM
#96
avatar of nordkind
Donator 11

Posts: 59

For everyone whining about Maxims...here is a video proofing that you cannot possibly suppress more than one squad with a Maxim.

Micro will allow you to suppress 2 squads but after that every other squad will be on top of your Maxim.

So the "attack move maxim" tactic can effectively be countered by an "attack move blob".

Who is with me and thinks the Maxim needs a change from a damage dealing one squad suppressing platform to an area supression weapon (like all other mgs...) with smaller damage output?


Soviets need a unit to punish blobs (and dont answer this with the katuscha...) Everyone hates blobbing and Mgs must be the way to punish blobs.

But of course we want no second MG42.

My two cents.

Best regards


22 Jul 2014, 15:44 PM
#97
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1679

Buff more the maxim? lol
22 Jul 2014, 16:11 PM
#98
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

For everyone whining about Maxims...here is a video proofing that you cannot possibly suppress more than one squad with a Maxim.

Micro will allow you to suppress 2 squads but after that every other squad will be on top of your Maxim.

So the "attack move maxim" tactic can effectively be countered by an "attack move blob".

Who is with me and thinks the Maxim needs a change from a damage dealing one squad suppressing platform to an area supression weapon (like all other mgs...) with smaller damage output?


Soviets need a unit to punish blobs (and dont answer this with the katuscha...) Everyone hates blobbing and Mgs must be the way to punish blobs.

But of course we want no second MG42.

My two cents.

Best regards




This is not the first time i have seen those bushed fuck up suppression. try it on different terrain. what annoys me more about this vid is how a flank got completely nullified
22 Jul 2014, 16:16 PM
#99
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1136

Going off nordkinds video, absolute hords and hords of volks with the 10 muni assault grenades might actually work vs maxims..? Could be interesting.

Not so when the shocks turn up though! lol
22 Jul 2014, 16:17 PM
#100
avatar of nordkind
Donator 11

Posts: 59

Its not the bush. It happens everywhere. We tested it on other maps too and its allways the same.

And also its a TEST. He wasnt even trying to flank. The video is to proof a point.

Regards
PAGES (9)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

Board Info

101 users are online: 2 members and 99 guests
Esxile, DSM
19 posts in the last 24h
140 posts in the last week
654 posts in the last month
Registered members: 28226
Welcome our newest member, MaianChang
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM