OKW seriously needs some kinda suppression, these American Rifle blobs start running rampant mid-game and pretty difficult to stop; Stuka relies too much on timing, and MG34 is doctrinal/piss-poor suppression.
Flak HT suppresses instantly but 2-3 zooks from the suppressed blob and it's dead.
Kubelwagen - What to Do With Scaling...
11 Jul 2014, 21:42 PM
#21
Posts: 578
12 Jul 2014, 00:30 AM
#22
Posts: 1384
Not all units are meant to scale to the end of the game. The US light vehicles certainly don't scale at all, why should the Kubel? It's useful when you get it, but don't expect it to be useful twenty minutes in.
Exactly this.
Plenty of units are mainly effective only during certain timings of the game.
I have however seen kubels survive twenty minutes and continue to annoy people.
OKW seriously needs some kinda suppression, these American Rifle blobs start running rampant mid-game and pretty difficult to stop; Stuka relies too much on timing, and MG34 is doctrinal/piss-poor suppression.
Flak HT suppresses instantly but 2-3 zooks from the suppressed blob and it's dead.
Good thing flak HT outranges bazookas then.
12 Jul 2014, 00:40 AM
#23
Posts: 4928
Good thing flak HT outranges bazookas then.
One burst from the M15 and the Flak HT is gone.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
12 Jul 2014, 03:58 AM
#24
1 
Posts: 97
One burst from the M15 and the Flak HT is gone.
One shot from a king tiger and the m15 is gone.
We could climb the ladder of what counters what all we want, the question is there anything OKW can do against the American Death Blob. That something counters the flak HT is expected and fine.
12 Jul 2014, 04:15 AM
#25
Posts: 4928
One shot from a king tiger and the m15 is gone.
The King Tiger doesn't come out anywhere near the M15. The M15 is an early-game unit, the King Tiger is a late-late game unit.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
12 Jul 2014, 04:33 AM
#26
Posts: 2561
You asked what unit counters blobs. Not what unit counters blobs and the M15 at the same time. That unit doesn't exist and you will have to use combined arms. And flak truck and and puppchen can counter that unit compisition just fine. Are you also not satisfied that it won't stop a priest too?
The King Tiger doesn't come out anywhere near the M15. The M15 is an early-game unit, the King Tiger is a late-late game unit.
12 Jul 2014, 04:40 AM
#27
Posts: 1571
-infiltration nades
-Mg-34
-10 fuel 20mm Flak gun near VP defense
-sturmoffizer forced retreat 1 unit
And most of all, Infantry Gun.
-Mg-34
-10 fuel 20mm Flak gun near VP defense
-sturmoffizer forced retreat 1 unit
And most of all, Infantry Gun.
12 Jul 2014, 04:50 AM
#28
Posts: 1384
The main problem with Kubel is its horrible pathing, everything else is fine. For bonus, any brave souls try micro 2 of them and let's see after 5 mins if you can retain your sanity.
It'd actually be easier to micro 2, because they could work together.
12 Jul 2014, 05:06 AM
#29
1 Posts: 97
The King Tiger doesn't come out anywhere near the M15. The M15 is an early-game unit, the King Tiger is a late-late game unit.
I'm aware. The thing up for discussion (since the consensus seems to be that kubel scaling is fine) is whether OKW has anything to deal with rifle blobs. Dullahan's arguing that flak HTs are a good counter because even bazooka blobs can have a hard time dealing with them (due to range).
A similar analogy to your point on how well m15 kill flak HT would be someone complaining that paks are not effective tank counters because rifles kill them.
12 Jul 2014, 05:15 AM
#30
Posts: 627
Using it, I think the Kubel is probably one of the more balanced units in the game. Its early game effect is so strong, that I don't feel like it really needs to scale all that well. If you micro it well enough it can also last well into the mid game and be effective.
At most I'd give it a vet ability(Seeing as getting it to vet is difficult enough) to use AP rounds. Being able to do light damage to vehicles would allow it to scale incredibly well.
And after microing the Med Truck, the Kubel is ez.
At most I'd give it a vet ability(Seeing as getting it to vet is difficult enough) to use AP rounds. Being able to do light damage to vehicles would allow it to scale incredibly well.
And after microing the Med Truck, the Kubel is ez.
12 Jul 2014, 05:47 AM
#31
Posts: 1063
It'd actually be easier to micro 2, because they could work together.
Yeah the problem is as soon as you take your eyes off them and micro your sturmpio or volk, these guys begin to do crazy things like bump into each other or worse blocking your own retreat path. Seriously, when COH2 first released, the M3 pathing isn't this bad but why they Kubel just do crazy things like circling around, U-shaped turn or crazy things like that. Maybe all this problem comes from the fact that the Kubel does not have neutral pivoting.
12 Jul 2014, 05:55 AM
#32
Posts: 101
Not all units are meant to scale to the end of the game. The US light vehicles certainly don't scale at all, why should the Kubel? It's useful when you get it, but don't expect it to be useful twenty minutes in.
this. especially when its a no fuel cost vehicle that acts as a fast, mobile mg.
also, support it with other units instead of expecting it to do amazing by itself all the time.
12 Jul 2014, 08:35 AM
#33
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
-10 fuel 20mm Flak gun near VP defense
You've never really build it, right?
I find it most useless thing in game.
For some reason, base ones are decent, but build able one sucks hard and can't even stop a SINGLE squad of anything.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Jul 2014, 14:59 PM
#34
Posts: 1571
^ I built it three times in one team game post patch.
I think it's the same as the one in the base.
I think it's the same as the one in the base.
12 Jul 2014, 15:55 PM
#35
Posts: 987
-infiltration nades
-Mg-34
-10 fuel 20mm Flak gun near VP defense
-sturmoffizer forced retreat 1 unit
And most of all, Infantry Gun.
flak position is rubbish. It needs a babysitter unit to stop it being stolen. UP considered it's immobile.
Kubel seems good, just the pathing kills all mine so I stopped using it. Maybe a bit of armour needed? it ges ass-raped by sov M3 and US jeep. It's not like you can micro away from the damn things, they're also on wheels.
vet1 ability is also very useful, I'd say that makes it useful late game. put it behind a bush an it's a mini-infra-red HT
Let's keep it constructive
12 Jul 2014, 16:15 PM
#36
Posts: 1571
I didn't use them alone. The 20mm Flak has the usual disadvantages of a static unit. However, it has much more firepower than the MG-34 and shreds infantry that attempt to cap the VP. It can stop blobs. Besides the crew, it is pretty durable.
I haven't seen it being a bad unit yet as the VPs need to be held anyway by several units and the flak becomes something of a diversion. I recrew them with volksgrenadiers.
I haven't seen it being a bad unit yet as the VPs need to be held anyway by several units and the flak becomes something of a diversion. I recrew them with volksgrenadiers.
13 Jul 2014, 02:31 AM
#37
5 Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
The kubel is a monster early game unit. If used properly you can almost totally negate the USF early game advantage. Against soviets it is less viable. If its buffed anymore it will be way to strong imo. The fact that you don't have to spend manpower to reinforce, coupled w/ the fact that it is extremely mobile more than makes up for a lack of scaling.
13 Jul 2014, 15:03 PM
#38
Posts: 627
Its pathing is really bad for what its meant to be. But I noticed that it also turns like a tank, which makes no fucking sense.
Relic did a lot of good things with WFA, but polishing units was not one of them.
Relic did a lot of good things with WFA, but polishing units was not one of them.
13 Jul 2014, 19:08 PM
#39
Posts: 4928
But I noticed that it also turns like a tank, which makes no fucking sense.
I don't know how you've played this game so long without noticing that all vehicles turn on their axis.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
13 Jul 2014, 21:45 PM
#40
Posts: 627
It's just one of those things that you kind of accept naturally until you stop and think about it.
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