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Official Sturmpioneer thread

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25 Jul 2014, 17:01 PM
#121
avatar of Ther0

Posts: 31

This is nonsense Milka.

You're whole argoument is broken, in 1v1, conscript lose. That's a fact.

Sure at max range they would most likely win, but geez.. who's the genius that let Sturmpios far away, when clearly they can be countered in close range only by the shocktroops ?

So, i can understand your argument, but you have to take in account HOW you play each squad. And, no metter what (i would like to be corrected with facts and not theory) in an actual game, sturmpios will winn against conscript, with equal skill in the player.

Same thing with the US Infantry Squad. Sturmpios run at you and you lose. But, that's ok, they cost a bit more it's ok that they're stronger..

You COULD avoid some of they're opness in open maps, but in citymaps, where they can pop out from behind a wall? You gotta hit that T pretty soon or you can say goodbye to your squad (s).

Also, IF they weren't op how do you explain the always frequent 3 strumpios opening ?
25 Jul 2014, 17:21 PM
#122
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Sturmpioneers are easily counter able even by Conscripts. No doubts. You need to know what to do and pick your skirmishes correctly.
Maybe dear Soviet players you would try to learn how to use something that isn't Maxims.

25 Jul 2014, 17:49 PM
#123
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 17:01 PMTher0

Same thing with the US Infantry Squad. Sturmpios run at you and you lose. But, that's ok, they cost a bit more it's ok that they're stronger..

You COULD avoid some of they're opness in open maps, but in citymaps, where they can pop out from behind a wall? You gotta hit that T pretty soon or you can say goodbye to your squad (s).

Also, IF they weren't op how do you explain the always frequent 3 strumpios opening ?


rifles will very often beat sturm pios. if rifles sit in cover, sturms have to close the distance. like ipkai said, they deal much less damage while moving. by the time they get close, they will have taken too much damage to win. if youre getting surprised around corners, thats just poor use of rifles and good play by the sturms.

the reason you see 3 sturm starts is because volks arent very good. good luck fighting rifles with only volks. they do fairly well against cons if you can keep them at long range, but besides that theyre pretty much only useful because of schrecks and their cost lets you build more squads.
25 Jul 2014, 18:10 PM
#124
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Sturmpioneers are easily counter able even by Conscripts.



Please define easily. So far the counters documented in this thread all require a signicant amount of micro and potentially munations. Sit one conscript squad back to pluck away, run the other away using Oorah and watch them get killed. Rinse and repeat until one side has to retreat. Sounds pretty fair for a starting unit.

For everybody else, I'm back to a two sniper opening and using concripts as bait.
25 Jul 2014, 18:15 PM
#125
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 18:10 PMNapalm


Please define easily. So far the counters documented in this thread all require a signicant amount of micro and potentially munations. Sit one conscript squad back to pluck away, run the other away using Oorah and watch them get killed. Rinse and repeat until one side has to retreat. Sounds pretty fair for a starting unit.

For everybody else, I'm back to a two sniper opening and using concripts as bait.


Gotta Agree with Napalm here. o.O DAFUQ?

Conscripts can beat Sturms but HELL NO not easily. Conscripts IMHO are now non combat troops akin to CE without flamers. ERrrrr duh lets make them best at close to medium and mediocre at long THEN LETS MAKE OKW WITH ALL LONG RANGE OMG FACEMELTING RAPEMACHINES WITH A SIDE OF STURM PIOS FOR UP CLOSE!!!

I prefer Volks at least they get really really good with Vet imho again (lots of armor self healing etc) and scale with Shreks.

Poor Poor retarded Yuri....back to the Sanitarium with you.
25 Jul 2014, 18:22 PM
#126
avatar of Mathias_Bras

Posts: 83

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 17:49 PMwooof


rifles will very often beat sturm pios.


Just wanted to throw in my experience here as I have been only playing OKW. This statement is true. If you charge Rifles with Sturms you will lose and be forced to retreat. There is a chance the rifles will also have to retreat afterwards, but a lot of that depends on how cautious the player is.

What does work with Sturm Pioneers are ambush tactics. If you can ambush rifles you will be much more successful since you will have 4 men doing damage at close range as opposed to only 2-3.

25 Jul 2014, 18:43 PM
#127
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 18:10 PMNapalm


Please define easily. So far the counters documented in this thread all require a signicant amount of micro and potentially munations. Sit one conscript squad back to pluck away, run the other away using Oorah and watch them get killed. Rinse and repeat until one side has to retreat. Sounds pretty fair for a starting unit.

For everybody else, I'm back to a two sniper opening and using concripts as bait.


You get 1-2 of these at the beginning based on ELO level I'm currently in. Typical BO is SP, SP, or SP, Volks, SP.
Key is to focus fire SP and make them move. They aren't as good when they move. If you sit and fight them in cover at mid range you will die, if you try to close in, you will die.
With T1 get a sniper or use Scout car but stay at max distance, don't charge in.
T2 support Cons with Maxim (not talking about Maxim spam here). Ignore Volks for now, focus on SP. They take long to reinforce and are quite costly as well.
25 Jul 2014, 18:47 PM
#128
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637



You get 1-2 of these at the beginning based on ELO level I'm currently in. Typical BO is SP, SP, or SP, Volks, SP.
Key is to focus fire SP and make them move. They aren't as good when they move. If you sit and fight them in cover at mid range you will die, if you try to close in, you will die.
With T1 get a sniper or use Scout car but stay at max distance, don't charge in.
T2 support Cons with Maxim (not talking about Maxim spam here). Ignore Volks for now, focus on SP. They take long to reinforce and are quite costly as well.


But thats not scripts. Thats combined Arms.

Scripts alone are the VERY worst i have played against or tried to use with OKW. Its embarrassingly bad. They just dont have the Damage to drop models fast enough and take a ton of Micro in comparison to what OKW needs to do.

Need to hotkey your Scripts, Use Cover, Dont close, Pay attention to who is getting Focus Fired be ready to retreat him, then the next one pay attention to his health judge how much RNG allowed you to do the Sturm Models be ready to retreat etc etc. Its a B I T C H. Not impossible but easy to make a punishing mistake and much worse then I feel Scripts should have to do.
25 Jul 2014, 18:49 PM
#129
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

cons are best at close range. sturms are much better at close range. spamming cons to beat sturms is like spamming pios to beat shocks. not sure what you expect to happen.
25 Jul 2014, 18:56 PM
#130
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 18:49 PMwooof
cons are best at close range. sturms are much better at close range. spamming cons to beat sturms is like spamming pios to beat shocks. not sure what you expect to happen.


I expect them to lose. As is the case. Even for cost. Even when spammed. Quickly making them completely irrelevant and replaced 99% in the meta.

Just like if tomorrow someone made a super sniper team of 3 Snipers for 400MP and what that would do to Grens.

What I would like to happen would be to address their weaknesses perhaps their weapon profiles so they can be competent infantry squads for at least early to mid game again. Then to be totally out scaled and classed.

Now against OKW they are completely obsolete from unit 1.

But this was in response to Oz claim that even Conscripts can "Easily" counter Sturms and that is flat out wrong. Nothing easy about trying to use Scripts against OKW.
25 Jul 2014, 19:31 PM
#132
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

you need to think more of the grander strategy when fighting against sturmpios imo. ive been using a 2 sturmpio start since WFA was released but ive changed strategies recently.
Against a competent player who knows how to creep up into close range, sturmpios are practically unbeatable in the early game. you basically have to get a lucky crit or hope they reload once they get into close range so you can kill a model. even then its very hard to kill them.
basically you'll want to avoid one squad fighting another sturmpio squad alone. Go to a different part of the map, you'll have numerical superiority to drive the enemy off that side and you'll be able to bleed some manpower.
if you have to fight sturmpios, make sure your squads arent doing it alone (atleast in the early game). focus firing sturmpios will make short work of them, especially if theyre charging, and losing 2-3 sturmpio models is a huge blow in the early game. its a huge manpower bleed especially when the timings of the trucks is key.

if the opponent chooses 2 sturmpios in the beginning, you can deal huge manpower bleed in the mid-late game. as long as you continuously kill of a few models from each squad whenever you see them using focus fire, you can delay a lot of important units for the OKW
25 Jul 2014, 19:37 PM
#133
avatar of MadeMan

Posts: 304

Cons should be able to beat Sturms 2 to 1 at least right? I'm pretty sure I've had success doing that at least, get a squad into cover and draw the sturmpio fire, then flank with the other either to focus fire or chuck a benzine bomb at them.
25 Jul 2014, 20:19 PM
#134
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

honestly the early game is all about micro and positioning your units effectively so they dont take unnecessary damage but at the same time dealing as much damage as possible. 2 cons can definitely force a sturmpio squad to back off.
25 Jul 2014, 20:22 PM
#135
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 19:37 PMMadeMan
Cons should be able to beat Sturms 2 to 1 at least right? I'm pretty sure I've had success doing that at least, get a squad into cover and draw the sturmpio fire, then flank with the other either to focus fire or chuck a benzine bomb at them.


All depends. I would say they can RETREAT them. But they cant be used consistently nor cost effectively. If say you get lucky and get a good bleed on them and cause the spiraling out of control Reinforcement instead of buying new squads then yeah but you need to keep mass producing your scripts.

But even if you field a TON of them if they get anywhere around 2/3 your force size you are going to bleed MP like a stuffed Pig.

I would say that for cost Scripts are 100% not viable against them. Maybe VonIvan or Jesulin can do it I dunno. But why would you bother unless your trolling someone much worse than you? Especially once Strums start getting Vet. And the worst part is for poor scripts Sturms are the LEAST of your infantry woes.

Its sad Scripts are the worst infantry now IMHO due to the factions they have to face. Its like saying Sorry OST you need to fight Vanilla Riflemen with Pios and if you dont call in Agrens at some point then you are stuck fighting Airborne with M1919s!
25 Jul 2014, 20:24 PM
#136
avatar of TheMightyCthulu

Posts: 127

The only real way I've beaten Sturmpioneers in initial engagements as the Soviets is facing them 2vs1 behind cover, and forcing the other player to retreat the Sturmpioneers because they are so pricey to reinforce. In a battle to the death it wouldn't work out for me, but in the long game it does.
25 Jul 2014, 20:34 PM
#137
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

remember that one sturmpioneer is 40 mp and that one conscript is 20 mp. if you can kill one model for every 2 conscripts youre doing an OK job.
25 Jul 2014, 20:40 PM
#138
avatar of MadeMan

Posts: 304



All depends. I would say they can RETREAT them. But they cant be used consistently nor cost effectively. If say you get lucky and get a good bleed on them and cause the spiraling out of control Reinforcement instead of buying new squads then yeah but you need to keep mass producing your scripts.

But even if you field a TON of them if they get anywhere around 2/3 your force size you are going to bleed MP like a stuffed Pig.

I would say that for cost Scripts are 100% not viable against them. Maybe VonIvan or Jesulin can do it I dunno. But why would you bother unless your trolling someone much worse than you? Especially once Strums start getting Vet. And the worst part is for poor scripts Sturms are the LEAST of your infantry woes.

Its sad Scripts are the worst infantry now IMHO due to the factions they have to face. Its like saying Sorry OST you need to fight Vanilla Riflemen with Pios and if you dont call in Agrens at some point then you are stuck fighting Airborne with M1919s!


I wouldn't mass produce them against OKW, but I meant in the initial encounters, when you first skirmish in the game. The opponent probably has 1x Sturm and then a Volk and Kubel or Two Volks in reserve. In this case the soviet player has 3 Cons w/molotov + a CE squad or some variation. In that case if you bump heads with a Sturmpioneer it's probably best to double team them to force a retreat is what I meant.
25 Jul 2014, 21:11 PM
#139
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2014, 20:40 PMMadeMan


I wouldn't mass produce them against OKW, but I meant in the initial encounters, when you first skirmish in the game. The opponent probably has 1x Sturm and then a Volk and Kubel or Two Volks in reserve. In this case the soviet player has 3 Cons w/molotov + a CE squad or some variation. In that case if you bump heads with a Sturmpioneer it's probably best to double team them to force a retreat is what I meant.


Yep but the viablility of Scripts is dubious. Its pretty much a practical requirement to do as Napalm mentioned. Using Maxims or Snipers and scripts up front. The scripts themselves are just not viable for anything other then an overpriced inefficient screening force.
25 Jul 2014, 21:41 PM
#140
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439



But thats not scripts. Thats combined Arms.

Scripts alone are the VERY worst i have played against or tried to use with OKW. Its embarrassingly bad. They just dont have the Damage to drop models fast enough and take a ton of Micro in comparison to what OKW needs to do.

Need to hotkey your Scripts, Use Cover, Dont close, Pay attention to who is getting Focus Fired be ready to retreat him, then the next one pay attention to his health judge how much RNG allowed you to do the Sturm Models be ready to retreat etc etc. Its a B I T C H. Not impossible but easy to make a punishing mistake and much worse then I feel Scripts should have to do.



What's wrong with combined arms? You will have hard time fighting SP with Cons alone as they were never designed to do that. To the same extend I wouldn't compose my OKW force from Volks only as this would put me at disadvantage.

Sorry but I don't understand this topic. Did OP has problems with Sturmpioneers in general or he/ she couldn't utilize Conscripts spam to deal with them?

If the OKW only spam SP than we is making it easier for you as no AT infantry present on the field. Use this so it will work your way.
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