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Slightly breaking NDA (but not really)

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kafrion
6 Feb 2013, 21:57 PM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2013, 11:39 AMPurlictor


Why won't it be? To me it seems that snipers not being able to cloack will make multiple snipers even better. Or has it got something to do with the 2-man sniper teams?


Well from what i have heard russians have large squads with expendable soldiers which makes investing in snipers not practical , germans on the other hand have a lot of light vehicles like the pe ac which are natural enemies of snipers , couple that with truesight and lack of camo and snipers become less efective which puts strain on your economy and hurts your teching .
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
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StephennJF
6 Feb 2013, 22:39 PM
#42
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Pretty sure Barton was doing damn well with 2 grens/2 sniper in the Alpha. I don't think sniper spam will be as easy to execute as it is in CoH (especially how rubbish it is in 2v2). I think the general large squads, tech trees and different style of mines will all play big factors.

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kafrion
7 Feb 2013, 18:09 PM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2013, 22:39 PMStephennJF
Pretty sure Barton was doing damn well with 2 grens/2 sniper in the Alpha. I don't think sniper spam will be as easy to execute as it is in CoH (especially how rubbish it is in 2v2). I think the general large squads, tech trees and different style of mines will all play big factors.


Here is hoping you are right , sniper wars will be a sad degeneration of the metagame at least in the fluff department.
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
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CombatMuffin
7 Feb 2013, 18:47 PM
#44
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Also, even Alpha players didn't get to see the real effects of veterancy (unless someone reverse engineered it). Vet 3 snipers didn't turn into soulless death machines, like they do in CoH, if my info is right.
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Pounder
8 Feb 2013, 04:37 AM
#45
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After playing alpha, I have plenty of confidence that beta's gonna be purty daymn gewd.

I'm also fairly certain that a lot in the game was placeholder. Things like unit cost, teching cost, etc. Simply there to let us fuck around with as much as possible while we could. Also, these costs did change throughout the various patches during alpha, so my guess is that Relic was testing to see if something like big changes (unit/tech cost adjustments) would break the game/cause bugs. Some focus had to also be on the patching process itself, essentially testing out patching the game via Steam.

Anyway, I'm thinking it's all gonna be good. Relic appears to have their shit together and, like most of you, I can't wait for beta.
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CrackBarbie
8 Feb 2013, 05:12 AM
#46
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What do you guys think about static popcap found in coh2?

I found it rather disappointing, since the direct relation between territory and popcap in coh1 provided for a great gameplay mechanic that encouraged players to expand and cut each other off. Furthermore, its inclusion in coh2 would be of even greater significance, since with the addition of very high MP upkeep costs, it’ll grant winning players atleast some option to capitalize on their advantage and thereby prevent their opponent from reinforcing (courtesy of way higher mp income) and just charging back on the battlefield. Combined with the rather insignificant vet buffs of coh2, I can just see comebacks becoming way too frustrating and frequent in coh2.

On the other hand, if coh2 is built and balanced around a rubber-banding (if you will) MP upkeep system, then perhaps a dynamic pop-cap system would conflict with that concept.

Disclaimer: The UI screenshot clearly depicts that the popcap limit is indeed static, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA.
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TychoCelchuuu
8 Feb 2013, 05:17 AM
#47
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I don't really care. It was somewhat unusual to hit pop cap in CoH - mostly it happened when one player was getting rolled or when you got cutoff near the mid-endgame. Because it's really tough to tell what your opponents' pop cap is, it's hard to strategically cut their pop cap down with a cutoff at the right time, so it's not like we saw many (or any) interesting strategies centered around pop caps. Maybe there's a way to make them more interesting than they were in CoH but I don't mind making them slightly less interesting because they weren't really so neat in the first place.

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CrackBarbie
8 Feb 2013, 05:23 AM
#48
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Actually, in the late game, when fuel and ammo income aren't so important, pop cap can be your only true incentive to cut someone off. You see good players do it all the time. It's true though that most decent players neglect to use pop cap manipulation to their advantage, however that doesn't mean that it can't be game changing.
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Tommy
8 Feb 2013, 08:14 AM
#49
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Static popcap is bad, and although it might've just been an alpha placeholder, I really hope it doesn't come back in the full game. It stinks of this whole new non-cutoff centric play that's being touted as superior.
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canard
8 Feb 2013, 10:31 AM
#50
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Posts: 48

Cut off is the most fun and easily comprehensible mechanism ever, can't believe they would sacrifice it on the altar of noobishness.

Seriously Relic, gief cut off, plenty.
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RsvT
8 Feb 2013, 10:51 AM
#51
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Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2013, 08:14 AMTommy
Static popcap is bad, and although it might've just been an alpha placeholder, I really hope it doesn't come back in the full game. It stinks of this whole new non-cutoff centric play that's being touted as superior.


Totally agree here, just first time heard of this and was really wtf ?! but yea lets hope its have been only placeholder..
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cr4wler
8 Feb 2013, 11:30 AM
#52
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Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2013, 18:47 PMCombatMuffin
Also, even Alpha players didn't get to see the real effects of veterancy (unless someone reverse engineered it). Vet 3 snipers didn't turn into soulless death machines, like they do in CoH, if my info is right.


*cough* *cough*
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CrackBarbie
8 Feb 2013, 15:16 PM
#53
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Posts: 182

Well, if you have any suggests, you should pm Quinn. A certain dev, who shall remain unnamed, told me that. I already pmed Quinn about it, but I'm sure if you guys do as well, he'll be more inclined to act on it.
@Tommy: Sadly, as of now, static pop cap isn't a placeholder.
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RagingJenni
8 Feb 2013, 16:21 PM
#54
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Posts: 486

I don't dislike static popcap in itself; honestly popcap is one of the weirder systems in modern RTS games. CoH already punishes munition and fuel income as well as making you more suspectible to artillery and being cut off, they could've kept that.

Getting rid of cutoffs is 10 steps backwards though.
No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.
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CombatMuffin
11 Feb 2013, 13:00 PM
#55
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Posts: 642

What's funny is, popcap was used in old games to compensate for lack of memory. Yes, it is a strategic element in some games, and it became a part of design, but...

Do we really need it? Even with sneaking vampires in vCOH, popcap was only really felt when you were dramatically losing map control, or in 1v1's where you literally go for the big bad cutoff certain maps had (north langres and angoville comes to mind).
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WiFiDi
12 Feb 2013, 17:18 PM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2013, 13:00 PMCombatMuffin
What's funny is, popcap was used in old games to compensate for lack of memory. Yes, it is a strategic element in some games, and it became a part of design, but...

Do we really need it? Even with sneaking vampires in vCOH, popcap was only really felt when you were dramatically losing map control, or in 1v1's where you literally go for the big bad cutoff certain maps had (north langres and angoville comes to mind).


i like pop cap for this sort of game. a game like ruse worked well without it. (while the game it self failed i felt it had good gameplay and core mechanics.)
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