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New Soviet Commander on the way!!!

10 Apr 2014, 09:57 AM
#61
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13976 | Subs: 7

And I will welcome new commanders.

Everything that expands on meta and gives additional strats is always welcome.

@Porygon
These commanders can't be an excuse, if it was like you are bitching about, they would never be nerfed. I haven't seen SI being used since scatter nerfs even once.
10 Apr 2014, 09:57 AM
#62
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1342

Omega Warrior, what did you not understand?
10 Apr 2014, 10:03 AM
#63
avatar of rafiki

Posts: 108

What we had seen in leeks some month ago (could have been modify):

No retreat, No surrender
0CP - No Retreat, No Surrender (+50MP income)
1CP - Commissar Squad (likely Sov counterpart to Ost Artillery Officer)
3CP - Manpower blitz (bonus MP instant against MP income decrease)
6CP - Hold the line (bonus def and off but can't move)
8CP - Scorched earth policy (bombing in owned territory)

I don't see how you can play without retreat ! Each pinned unit are dead for example ! +50MP does not really compensate this !
10 Apr 2014, 10:08 AM
#64
avatar of rafiki

Posts: 108

and the german counterpart :

Encirclement dortrine
1CP - Stormtroopers (Poster Note: Stormtroopers have been renamed Jaeger Light Infantry, they are very expensive but highly skilled soldiers. They consist of 5 men armed with G43 Rifles, and they possess the ability to decap sectors at a rapid rate but cannot take them). coute 560 et 56/renfort
2CP - Sprint
4CP - Break supply line (bombing for decaping)
8CP - Breakthrough (tank small speed bonus et decaping capacity for tank)
10CP - Close the pocket (bombing in isolated teritory )
10 Apr 2014, 10:18 AM
#65
avatar of GuruSkippy

Posts: 150

You can complain as much as you want guys, but if Relic keep selling commanders, it means people are buying commanders.

You don't like commanders ? don't buy them, not even one, not even with a price reduction.

Actually, when I watch COH2 streams, and when I play, I'm really surprised about how much people have paid commanders.
10 Apr 2014, 10:33 AM
#66
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2014, 10:08 AMrafiki
and the german counterpart :

Encirclement dortrine
1CP - Stormtroopers (Poster Note: Stormtroopers have been renamed Jaeger Light Infantry, they are very expensive but highly skilled soldiers. They consist of 5 men armed with G43 Rifles, and they possess the ability to decap sectors at a rapid rate but cannot take them). coute 560 et 56/renfort
2CP - Sprint
4CP - Break supply line (bombing for decaping)
8CP - Breakthrough (tank small speed bonus et decaping capacity for tank)
10CP - Close the pocket (bombing in isolated teritory )


5 men with the G-43? This is a great imbalanced. If grenadiers with two G-43 raped every living thing, then that will make five G-43? Why six SVT - 40 so disgusting?
10 Apr 2014, 10:58 AM
#67
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2014, 08:07 AMrejfor
Porygon, I'm not DLC fan but game development now is waaay more expensive than in 1999. Only blind person can't see this. SC2 and GTA5 have great fanbase (compare it with COH2 fanbase) so your argument is invalid.

It's sad but Relic isn't Blizzard or Rockstar so they have no any other choice.


What do you mean they had no other choice?

Company of Heroes 1, Dawn of War 2, both ran usable xpac/DLC models that you would find little reason to complain about.

CoH2? It's pay2win. I don't get how people refuse to understand that selling DLC for multiplayer that effects gameplay is a bad thing.
Tell me, what is good for you, as a consumer, about someone coming up behind you, shoving a giant stick up your asshole and shaking it until money comes out the other end? Do you enjoy that kind of thing?

Each to their own, I guess.

No, it's not like some illiterate retard said earlier in the thread about having to pay for content. Everyone's fine paying for content. But let me break this down for people in an ELI5 way that even the most quarter brained fuckwit can understand.

  • They had DLC developed that didn't come with the game's release, which is fundamentally poor business practice
  • The DLC they are selling opens up strategies and tactics that are not available to non-playing players
  • Relic is, and has always been, incapable of balancing anything, especially with a business model that requires continuous content production


So, what we have here is effectively "Day 1 DLC", which everybody absolutely spits on EA for doing, but when it's Relic it's "Just the way it's done, guys".

Then we have on top of that fact that the DLC is designed to give a player a direct advantage in the game - why else would someone buy it? To play worse? Not even EA fucking does that. Shit, even SOE, the champion of Pay2Win garbage isn't that blatant in their games until they go full fucking retard about a year into development.

And then we get to Relic's abysmal history when it comes to balancing games where there is an extremely slow rate of content production. And you guys expect them to balance a game where Commanders are pushed out like clockwork? Are you guys all high?

You can complain as much as you want guys, but if Relic keep selling commanders, it means people are buying commanders.

You don't like commanders ? don't buy them, not even one, not even with a price reduction.

Actually, when I watch COH2 streams, and when I play, I'm really surprised about how much people have paid commanders.


I refuse to buy them. I bought the first set when I was originally optimistic about Relic's approach to DLC, then it turns out all being part of SEGA brought us was a half-baked game with developers with that attitude of a corporation.

But you know what, with all of that I am still at a disadvantage when I play. Do you think the NKVD Rifle Doctrine lets me stack up to Elite Troops? But god forbid any of the Commanders already developed will be balanced and made competitive, why do that when they can keep releasing more for more money with minimal effort?

This idea of selling DLC Commanders was a terrible, terrible,, TERRIBLE design decision and I'd love to say whoever thought of it should be fucking fired, but unfortunately he's probably enjoying his promotion. It's blatantly obvious that this bastardization of the Doctrine system, which has so badly fucked up this game, was done purely so they could make money off of it.

And it's just funny, how badly can you shaft your loyal playerbase that a seven year old game still has a competitive playerbase with the new one?

I just want to know what the fuck happened to the Relic that made quality content at reasonable prices that didn't totally fuck up the game for people who didn't buy it. Did all of Relic's design genius die with Woods?
10 Apr 2014, 11:12 AM
#68
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

well, I hope relic learned their lesson and it won't be tiger ace all over again.

However, this doctrine sounds cool. What i think it will be is a sort of defensive doctrine. Since attacking with it would be very risky, since a surpessed con squad means wiped cons squad i can see this commander basically stuffing your conscripts in buildings and just sending more and more and more of them.
Againts this commander, bunkers would work very well i think.

Also, the free commanders are still the best ones.
10 Apr 2014, 11:25 AM
#69
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2014, 11:12 AMBurts
well, I hope relic learned their lesson and it won't be tiger ace all over again.

However, this doctrine sounds cool. What i think it will be is a sort of defensive doctrine. Since attacking with it would be very risky, since a surpessed con squad means wiped cons squad i can see this commander basically stuffing your conscripts in buildings and just sending more and more and more of them.
Againts this commander, bunkers would work very well i think.

Also, the free commanders are still the best ones.

Suppression weapons will be the bane of this commander. The increased manpower wont cover consistantly losing squads. I could see getting a mortar for it's smoke rounds so you can free your conscripts before they die, and you can still send wounded squads back to reinforce manually.

To be honest, I'm more worried about this commander being UP the OP.
10 Apr 2014, 11:26 AM
#70
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702


Suppression weapons will be the bane of this commander. The increased manpower wont cover consistantly losing squads. I could see getting a mortar for it's smoke rounds so you can free your conscripts before they die.

To be honest, I'm more worried about this commander being UP the OP.



Like i said, it will be a sort of defensive commander that works for urban maps with lots of buildings. Just pop all your conscripts into buildings.
10 Apr 2014, 11:27 AM
#71
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2014, 11:26 AMBurts



Like i said, it will be a sort of defensive commander that works for urban maps with lots of buildings. Just pop all your conscripts into buildings.
I know. I was agreeing with you.
10 Apr 2014, 11:30 AM
#72
avatar of bilsantu

Posts: 177

Next week I suppose, since Noun said that there won't be any patch this week. Plus, quality commanders are always welcome unlike Urban Defense Tactics. -_-
10 Apr 2014, 11:32 AM
#73
avatar of armatak

Posts: 170

Let's ask Blizzard to make a WW II adaption of Starcraft II.
10 Apr 2014, 11:52 AM
#74
avatar of Tri86

Posts: 97


But you know what, with all of that I am still at a disadvantage when I play. Do you think the NKVD Rifle Doctrine lets me stack up to Elite Troops? But god forbid any of the Commanders already developed will be balanced and made competitive, why do that when they can keep releasing more for more money with minimal effort?


Not saying I disagree with you on your overall opinion regarding DLC, but some of the default commanders are pretty strong atm (Guards Motor and Shock Rifles).
10 Apr 2014, 12:33 PM
#75
avatar of MilkaCow

Posts: 577

On topic: Aw ma gawd, Relic ruin game!!!
All this speculation is based on what people posted here and the current state of the game.

No retreat, No surrender
Commander in M3 with masses of Penals charging. OH YEA BABY! MG42 (unless it's lots of them) will not be able to stop it since the gunners get killed too fast. Zerg it up!
This doctrine is a double edged sword - The additional manpower income can be really useful, but to actually shine with this doc you need good micro. Losing squads can happen far more often due to the missing retreat and even though it sounds like it's more forgiving if that happens - it actually isn't. You need to steamroll your opponent early game or at least hold most of the map - if both have equal territory you are most likely fighting a losing battle by feeding him experience.

Encirclement doctrine:
With the G43 changes (lower range, weaker compared to the old one) I guess that the Jäger Light Infantry would be quite weak for their cost. 1-2 M3 should bleed them hard. The rest of the doctrine sounds useful in parts, but considering how strong riflenades are currently and how late tanks come, I'm not sure if I would not prefer another doctrine.


Now concerning the whole DLC side-discussion:
Overall I'd say discuss DLC pricing / the fact that CoH2 has a DLC model in one thread and the DLC content in another. Mixing it all the time again is incredibly annoying. People who just want to discuss the DLC content get annoyed by those preachers against the DLC model. The preachers themselves are stunned at the 'ignorance' of the other forum users, even though they might actually agree with them, but just do not want to discuss this in the topic...
10 Apr 2014, 12:43 PM
#76
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2014, 09:57 AMKatitof
And I will welcome new commanders.

Everything that expands on meta and gives additional strats is always welcome.

@Porygon
These commanders can't be an excuse, if it was like you are bitching about, they would never be nerfed. I haven't seen SI being used since scatter nerfs even once.


Of course, you spend 100x more time on this forum trolling than actually playing.
10 Apr 2014, 13:14 PM
#77
avatar of Z3r07
Donator 11

Posts: 1004

sadly, numbers don't lie.
10 Apr 2014, 13:30 PM
#78
avatar of OrionHunter88

Posts: 141

It's about damn time they put this commander in the game.
10 Apr 2014, 14:00 PM
#79
avatar of rafiki

Posts: 108



5 men with the G-43? This is a great imbalanced. If grenadiers with two G-43 raped every living thing, then that will make five G-43? Why six SVT - 40 so disgusting?


as said before, i have seen this month ago (before patch). It may have changed. But ideas of this doctrine are interesting
10 Apr 2014, 15:30 PM
#80
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578



Fuk Yes more! more tactics more options more units

more more more!

More commanders don t give you more Options only DIFFERENT Options.

The amount of Options is always the lousy same: few non-doctrinal Units + 1 commander.aDDING MORE COMMANDERS DOESN T CHANGE THE LOW AMOUNT OF UNITS YOU CAN BUILD IN A GAME BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY CHOOSE 1 OUT OF 999999 COMMANDERS:
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