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16 Feb 2014, 23:04 PM
#421
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971


Ultimately this comes down to a simple choice: do you, as CoH players, want to give Relic (and indeed the community at large) time to change and adapt, or do you want to wallow in self-pity and snipe from the sidelines regardless of what happens next?


Sorry man, but it seems that you're the one inviting the flame with those comments.
People can agree or disagree, but it seems unrespectful to say that they're "wallowing in self-pity" or as another guy said "[...] I look at all the naysayers as they were retards" [sic].

Please, moderate insults, not opinions.
16 Feb 2014, 23:14 PM
#422
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1527 | Subs: 1


Disagree. Just look how the old faces were dominating CoH2 back when they were playing it (Aimstrong, Sepha, Twister, Symbi, etc). Good players are also good learners, so in theory even if they go several months without playing they will quickly reclaim their rightful place if and when they decide to return. However in reality the skill gap between the mid and high level players is considerably lower in CoH2 which is why myself and many others got tired of the game. Having a good understanding of strategy and timing, plus micro to match, isn't as rewarding when some random guy can just march around with LMG Grens, Shocktroops, or whatever the current unit of the month is, and give you a really tough game.

I haven't played the beta lately but from what I've heard its mainly balance issues, which isn't addressing many of the major complaints (just to reiterate: tech pace, blizzards, doctrine system, lack of global upgrades, paid multiplayer content). If Relic acknowledged those grievances and said they are working on it, and prioritized correctly, people would probably have a lot more patience with the game. But whenever someone provides design based feedback it either gets ignored, or it gets the usual "thanks for the feedback" and fuck all actually happens. You can't blame people for reaching their ropes end when they spend months giving feedback and possible solutions and then the only changes that ever happen are balance tweaks.


The skill level might be closer from high to mid at this time but the game is still in its infancy, new sepha's, twisters etc will emerge, just as it has always done with every new gaming generation.

If some random guy is giving you a hard game using LMG's or shocks then you're not countering correctly, which is your fault not the games.
16 Feb 2014, 23:43 PM
#423
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

How dare 'old hands' and pros get beat by 'some random guy.'

How DARE THEY!
16 Feb 2014, 23:49 PM
#424
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

This is fresh. Relic apparently lacks the resources to properly develop a game, ie don't expect bug fixes, patches etc. for free (as though this wasn't $60), you need to buy some DLC first, but they have a full time position for someone to dick around on the forums.


jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2014, 21:05 PMNoun
There's been a lot of talk about Company of Heroes streamers, broadcasters and viewer numbers recently. Some of it has been constructive, giving us important information on how we should improve our game and our relationship to the video content creators who work with it. Everyone is talking about how we need to improve in order to bring in more viewers for those making videos.

What's been missing in the conversation is the other side of that conversation, how content creators could be improving.

We want to build a relationship with video creators. But a healthy relationship is never one where one person keeps saying, "It's your fault."

Sometimes it will be our fault. Absolutely. But not always.

We want to work with fans of our game. People who are passionate to play it, and to share it with others. So let's start with a bit of air clearing.

Toxicity

Running down other video creators in the community is straight up stupid. Dumb as hammers stupid. It's also arrogant and selfish, and destructive. Almost everyone here is creating video content because they love the game, and want to share their passion. So why hate on that?

It's fine to think you're the best caster in the world. Own that. Shout it from the rooftops if that's your style.

But what do you gain from calling other people names? They're working hard, just like you, to create something they care about. Does it make you feel bigger to make them feel small?

If you have a personal beef another video creator (active or retired), then work it out offline and not in public. What you don't do is stream for a few hours to insult them, scan through their Facebook profile and insult their friends and family.

That is fucking bullshit.

This community of CoH content creators isn't big enough for this. It's small and it should be mutually supportive, with everyone working to make things better and attract new viewers and new casters.

If you're worried that show X is getting more views than you, and so you run them down, you're 100% doing it wrong.

The more great content that the community makes, the more people are going to show up to watch it. Running down others only encourages more people to leave casting. Nobody is going to have a perfect show to start, this is a growing process for all of you.

All of us.

So grow together, help each other.

Because when a new viewer comes and sees that our casts are filled with petty infighting, they're not sticking around and they're not going to tell their friends to come and watch.

Anyone who wants to help this community grow needs to be on board with this. Going forward Relic will not support or promote any content creator who uses their reach to be destructive to other fans and the community.

If you get frustrated and accidentally call someone a jerk, fine. We'll deal with you on that and move forward. But there's a slip of the tongue in a moment of frustration and a long drawn out rant. Like pornography we'll know when we see it. Unlike pornography we won't enjoy seeing it.

Edit/Update: People have been asking for specifics on this one, because we all like to gossip. It's not one specific incident, it's a series of them that go back quite some time. It's not with one specific person, or group.

The Standard Rich and Famous Contract



Now that this one post has absolutely cleared up all toxicity from the community we're all going to be famous right? Relic's handing out careers as eSports broadcasters and everyone is being fitted for gold pants.

Right?

Sadly nope. Let's be honest it's the case that currently the audience for CoH broadcasts isn't enough for anyone to be owning gold pants. If you're in this to make a career for yourself then there are other games you should target.

If you're here because you love the game and want to share that, then let's get to work.

Maybe we'll all work really hard and not get rich and famous.

But we can work really hard and make cooler shit, and better stuff. We can grow this viewership together, as partners. Neither of us are always going to be right, and neither of us are always going to be wrong.

And it'll be hard. And take awhile. It may never happen, who knows.

But come on, let's give it a shot.

We'll listen to what you want. Sometimes you won't always get it. Sometimes it may even seem like we're doing the opposite, but that we'll always listen.

Step #1 Make Cool Shit

So how do we go about this? We're happy to talk about how we can support you, but you need to decide how best to express your passion for the game.

Is that by running and casting a tournament? Is that by doing your own stream? Is that by doing a tutorial stream to help new players learn how to play, thus helping grow the competitive community? How about doing the rap? Or a live action recreation? Or mime?

Go wild.

But okay, maybe no mime.

Step #2 Iterate

If you want to grow a following and a viewship then every cast should be a learning opportunity. If you're phoning it in, and find your own casts boring to watch, then so will the viewers. Or former viewers, because nobody wants to watch something that even the host finds dull.

Each piece of art you do, whether it's a broadcast, a tournament, a drawing or podcast should be the best one you've done. Then you should look at it and critically tear it to pieces and start fresh.

What did you like about the last thing you did? Figure that out and do that better next time, include more of it or hone it.

What did you hate about the last thing you did? Figure that out and either stop doing it, or do it in a new way. Examine every thing you do. And while it's important to be proud of the work you do, it's better to be proud of the improvements you're making each time you do something.

Step #3 Do Something New

As a chubby white guy who has been doing some Twitch.TV casting on the Relic channel, I am well aware of the fact that there's a lot of chubby white guys doing Twitch.TV streaming. Me plunking myself down in front of a camera isn't interesting to anyone, and the only thing that is interesting is that I work for Relic.

So internally here we're looking at how we can take our Twitch channel to the next level. How can we prevent it from just being one or two dudes staring at a screen and playing a game? That's cool, and there's a lot of people doing that, but we want to be something new.

We want to do something that people want to watch because it's good, not just because it's Relic.

If you look at the people who are growing big audiences, a lot of it is luck. They happened to be fans of the right game at the right time. You can't control luck. But there's also a lot of people who are making their name by being different.

It's not just about having a gimick, it's about standing out from everyone else doing the same thing. Sometimes it can be about quality. Doing the same thing that everyone else does, but doing it not 10% better but 200% better is one option.

Another is finding a way to express your unique voice. If you still have to discover what that voice is, that's okay. It's a hard thing to figure out, and it'll take time.

Time for a video intermission.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eetGJMLrFwE&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

That video is amazing. I'm not saying go out and make that video, but it's amazing in that it captures what's great about StarCraft and shares this guy's excitement and love for the game.

We will come back to it later, but for now it's worth pointing out that it's different than what other people are doing for SC. SC has lots of streamers and casters and eSports do-dads and it's hard to rise above that. This video did and caught the attention of an audience that goes beyond the SC competitive scene.

Because it was cool and it was different. It it had been the 10th video like that, nobody would have cared. If it had sucked, nobody would have cared.

It was cool and it was different.

Maybe there's new stuff to do with streaming. The Learn to Play 1v1 Stream going on as I speak is a great example of targeting a different audience than most other casts.

Step #4 Work With Us

We've been focusing a lot of our resources towards supporting a specific site and a specific broadcast team. The great thing about recent events is that the decision to free up our focus to be much broader has been made for us. It's an exciting time.

If you've been working in the trenches and didn't feel you have been getting enough love from us, then get in touch with us again. If you're just starting up, let us know and we'll do what we can to support you.

We've got some plans on how we can better support our content creators as we move forwards.

Step #5 Set (Realistic) Goals

Deciding that you're going to triple your viewership is great when you have 3 viewers, but harder to do as you get larger. Setting achievable goals is a good idea, so that you know what success looks like.

So you have a target to work towards.

Now your goals may not be based on how many viewers you have.

Maybe your goal is to snag that exclusive interview with the handsome Noun.

Maybe your goal is to make a really good show that you love.

Maybe your goal is to say "farts" 100 times every time you stream.

Maybe your goal is to have someone you really respect love it.

Set a goal and then ensure that all your decisions are in service of achieving that goal.

But allow youself to fail too. Forgive yourself when you don't hit it, and forgive others too. Just try again, making sure that you're doing step #2.



Everything Noun Knows About Social Media and Viral Stuff That He Can Fit Into One Post

Virality:

After the recent Sunday Night Fights art contest a few people contacted me and said that I should feature the winner on our Facebook page. Here is that bit of art.



It's a great piece by Ginnungagap. But I didn't share it. Why not?

Platforms like Facebook and Twitter are fantastic because it allows us to talk to hundreds of thousands of fans and with the right content it allows us to reach potentially millions.

But to reach that audience the content has to be interesting to that audience. The above piece of art is very interesting to the people who watched SNF Season 5. It's kind of interesting to COH2.ORG users who didn't watch SNF. It's not interesting to anyone else.

Compare that to this bit of art.



Thankfully it's the same artist, otherwise I'd be spending a paragraph apologizing.

So here we have a piece of art that anyone who plays CoH or CoH2 can relate to. We know how units vet up, and it's a pretty funny piece based on a core feature of the game. So rather than being a bit of art for just SNF viewers, it's a bit of art for all CoH players.

We shared this and it was one of our best performing posts on Facebook in 2013.

Which piece of art is better? Neither. They're both great, but one has a wider appeal.

This is why it's important to have a goal set in mind for what you're trying to achieve. If Ginnungagap wanted to achieve the highest number of views, then the second picture was the one that achieved that. If he wanted to make something that really spoke to a certain group of people, and views weren't as important, than the first one was best.

Think of the content that you LIKE, SHARE and COMMENT on in Facebook. It's stuff you're excited about. If your friend posts something about a game that you don't know, you like it only if something about it catches your attention.

When creating content consider what's going to catch people's attention. If you want to get past just a COH2.ORG audience, then how will this appeal to the average CoH player? If you want to get to a larger gaming audience, then you need to make something that anyone who plays games will understand and want to engage with.

If you want to go beyond the gaming audience, then like the SC2 video I shared up top, you need to explain why people should care about what you're sharing with them.

Consider Short:

30 minute to 2 hour streams are great if you're targeting the small audience of hard core players that exist. However even then people only have so many hours a day, and with a number of broadcasters working it would be impossible for a fan to watch all the video content being put out.

Further 60 minute content doesn't get shared well, because the only people who will invest that amount of time in watching something are fans already or the elderly while they wait for Jeopardy to come on.

So when I post a 60 minute stream video to YouTube people don't tend to watch it, because most people don't have that much time to spare. There is an audience for that, and we're going to grow it with you, but it's still pretty small.

However when I post a 60 second clip to YouTube, people watch it.

So what to do?

Again that's up to you. But shorter works better for social networks and virality.

Maybe instead of a 1 hour cast of a replay do a 10 minute highlights cast of one. Or to help advertise your 60 minute YouTube video you create a 30 second clip of something awesome happening in the game, with a link that drives to the full video.

That we could share on Facebook and fans would engage with it, meaning more potential views.

Again going back to the StarCraft video, it's just over 2 minutes. When I saw it on Kotaku I watched it because I had 2 minutes to spare. If it had been 2 hours I'd never have clicked on it.

Again this ties into what your goals are. If you don't care about views, and just want to make six hours of video content then this shouldn't matter to you. But if you are worried about views, if that's your goal, then this should be a consideration.


So That's All You Know?

No, but I've run out of time and after a Chrome crash and having to type this in a second time I've got to go do other stuff.


TLDNR

We're proud of the game we made in Company of Heroes 2. We're excited for it's future. If you love it as much as we do and want to make some cool stuff to show off your passion, then we're here to help if we can.

The future is about enjoying what we have and working together to make it even better.

That's what we want to work on.

How about you?
16 Feb 2014, 23:52 PM
#425
avatar of Von Kluge
Patrion 14

Posts: 3548 | Subs: 2

This is fresh. Relic apparently lacks the resources to properly develop a game, ie don't expect bug fixes, patches etc. for free (as though this wasn't $60), you need to buy some DLC first, but they have a full time position for someone to dick around on the forums.



Keep your shit in one thread please, it's bad enough already.
It takes balls to have the full eleven posts up and act like this, I give you that.
17 Feb 2014, 00:19 AM
#426
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

Should I be afraid of being frank if I haven't been around long enough for people to care if I'm banned for it? Everyone knows the official forum is no place for criticism, usually you don't have to bite your tongue in community forums.

This post from the company is unbelievably preachy and morally high-horsed considering its crowd surfing for free promotion. We fans should be grateful though, with a player base of ~5000, we'll each only need to buy 2-3 new DLC commanders this following year to generate the revenue needed keep the position staffed.


17 Feb 2014, 00:22 AM
#427
avatar of Von Kluge
Patrion 14

Posts: 3548 | Subs: 2

I'm not even going to try and argue any further with you. Good luck.
17 Feb 2014, 00:56 AM
#428
avatar of Trainzz

Posts: 332 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2014, 15:57 PMA_E
NDA withstanding, all I'll say is that I'm psyched for this game, very psyched. So much so that I don't give a fuck what the majority of naysayers such as Inverse harp on about in this thread, and haven't read 90% of it. CoH1 had no depth to its meta game at a similar stage in its life cycle but it slowly revealed itself much in the same way CoH2 is now, and it's stupid to me that a vocal minority are being absolutists incapable of giving it the time it needs to mature.


You might be correct if you call these players that are complaining a vocal minority, but it is probably 90% of the old CoH1 vets that are not pleased with the game. The game had a lot of time already to mature. Just that it didn't. The process of maturing includes actually learning from mistakes. And damn they did a lot of mistakes, starting off with Opposing Fronts, continuing with ToV and to some extend CoH:O and eventually finishing with a lot design decisions in CoH2. However, the content they created just got worse over the years, if you ask me.

If you care about the competitive side of this game you cannot be pleased, because after all this side is being ignored mostly. Relic is not changing things that help CoH2s competitiveness, they are lying to us about what will happen (and what not) and they are appearantly not even trying to get a healthy discussion about this, either.


Relic are a small but dedicated dev team, you should give more time to a company that nearly got liquidated last year. They're doing wonders with patching CoH2, turning it from a sloppy mess into a blossoming competitive RTS. As incredibly varied and entertaining play in the recent Reddit 1v1 tournament has shown. The meta game is constantly changing even within the current patch, and there's a hell of a lot of change coming, as leaked patch notes have shown.


I am sure they want to improve their game, but the fact taht we are waiting for major changes for quite a long time already makes me want to abandon all hope. With major changes I don't mean balance changes, because balancing a game that has bad core mechanics and sees a ton of new (unnecessary) content every 2 or so months is really hard and not helpful. What Relic needs to do is finally get a firm goal. Do they really want to "create" a competitive game? Then they should finally show us. What happened to all the promises? Observer mode? Limited commanders or commanders that don't influence competitve matches? Fix of the input lag? Improvement on replay function?

All this alone shows me that, so far, nothing really happened outside of promises and balance changes (that to be fair were well-done, no question. It's just not what we need most now)


A fun game is slowly becoming a great game, and a worthy sequel. The great thing is the vocal portion of the CoH1 community that haven't given CoH2 enough of a chance are going to be rusty, and their premature opinions on its failure in its first year of release, will become a lot less relevant when they're revealed to be thoroughly mediocre CoH2 players. Then hopefully they'll spend less time whining about its short-comings, and more time playing.


It would be rather sad if CoH1 players that don't even play this game could come back and start winning everything in a matter of 1 or 2 months, while there are some players playing this game for a year or more now.

To close this out, I would like to remind you of how much effort people spend on telling Relic what needs to be done to create a good competitive game. We did a lot of work to promote this game, created a lot of content for the game and gave a lot of feedback. After all we got ignored for the most part (at least when I look and the feedback of old CoH1 vets and my own). So after going through this for quite a while now, people simply start getting frustrated. So yeah, the constructive feedback might have turned into whining by now, but there is a reason to it.
17 Feb 2014, 01:26 AM
#429
avatar of scarenow

Posts: 79

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2014, 19:33 PMcr4wler

*cough cough*

well... TB doesn't do any Sega games. Ever.
I looked at this tweet you posted and found this video describing what it is all about. I must say, this story just says much about Sega...

But, even if DLC bussiness model was forced on you Relic, you could still do better than what you did. Now you are making things even worst, trying to say that it's not your fault that people are not attracted to your game. Trying to shift guilt from your bad design choices to casters and streamers. Fix your game (if it's still possible), then you can give us advices.

The sad truth is that CoH2 isn't that enjoyable to watch. For me it's just the lack of tactical depth. I find your game just too shallow to have my attention for longer and I can assure you that these words are coming from a very open minded person. Facts are just not in your favour Relic.
17 Feb 2014, 03:58 AM
#430
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1939 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2014, 23:14 PMwuff


The skill level might be closer from high to mid at this time but the game is still in its infancy, new sepha's, twisters etc will emerge, just as it has always done with every new gaming generation.

Sure any game will always have its better bunch of players, but the difference between these 'pros' and the average above-average player is incredibly smaller now. Look at Aimstrong for example, he had like a 98% win rate in automatch. And the other top players (Seb, DevM, Symbiosis, aljaz, Guderian, etc) were pretty close behind. Unless they got unlucky, they won almost every single game that wasn't against one of the top 10 players in the world. The people that are considered great now win 70-85% of their games against the general population, which isn't entirely their fault since the lower skill ceiling works both ways, but it just goes to show that the level of competition is a bit pale.

If some random guy is giving you a hard game using LMG's or shocks then you're not countering correctly, which is your fault not the games.

Those words aren't even mine, its more or less the same thing Twister (previous SNF winner) said just a few days ago. So if one of the top players feels the same way, its not really a personal l2p issue. I'm not sure what is the unit to spam these days since I haven't played 1v1 lately, but the lack of teching options and doctrine counter picking mechanic does make it a lot more difficult to outsmart a one dimensional player like that and instead you rely more on him making micro mistakes, which is pretty iffy since CoH isn't a very micro intensive game to begin with.

17 Feb 2014, 04:11 AM
#431
avatar of cataclaw

Posts: 522


Sure any game will always have its better bunch of players, but the difference between these 'pros' and the average above-average player is incredibly smaller now. Look at Aimstrong for example, he had like a 98% win rate in automatch. And the other top players (Seb, DevM, Symbiosis, aljaz, Guderian, etc) were pretty close behind. Unless they got unlucky, they won almost every single game that wasn't against one of the top 10 players in the world. The people that are considered great now win 70-85% of their games against the general population, which isn't entirely their fault since the lower skill ceiling works both ways, but it just goes to show that the level of competition is a bit pale.


Those words aren't even mine, its more or less the same thing Twister (previous SNF winner) said just a few days ago. So if one of the top players feels the same way, its not really a personal l2p issue. I'm not sure what is the unit to spam these days since I haven't played 1v1 lately, but the lack of teching options and doctrine counter picking mechanic does make it a lot more difficult to outsmart a one dimensional player like that and instead you rely more on him making micro mistakes, which is pretty iffy since CoH isn't a very micro intensive game to begin with.



The pro winrate @ GM ladders @ SC2 is 75%, i don't get your point. Bonjwa's come & go.
The top players having lower than "99% winrate" should be a good thing, yet in your post you see it like something bad. This means that the ladder, players etc are getting stimulated. Since they actually are getting some competition :banana:
17 Feb 2014, 05:20 AM
#432
avatar of Kolaris

Posts: 308 | Subs: 1



The pro winrate @ GM ladders @ SC2 is 75%, i don't get your point. Bonjwa's come & go.
The top players having lower than "99% winrate" should be a good thing, yet in your post you see it like something bad. This means that the ladder, players etc are getting stimulated. Since they actually are getting some competition :banana:


The question is whether that competition is an equally skilled player
17 Feb 2014, 05:40 AM
#433
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4


Sure any game will always have its better bunch of players, but the difference between these 'pros' and the average above-average player is incredibly smaller now. Look at Aimstrong for example, he had like a 98% win rate in automatch. And the other top players (Seb, DevM, Symbiosis, aljaz, Guderian, etc) were pretty close behind. Unless they got unlucky, they won almost every single game that wasn't against one of the top 10 players in the world. The people that are considered great now win 70-85% of their games against the general population, which isn't entirely their fault since the lower skill ceiling works both ways, but it just goes to show that the level of competition is a bit pale.


Worst. Logic. Ever. Rofl.

As Cataclaw said even the absolute best of the best SC:BW/SC2 players ever (which are WAY better at SC than any vCoH/CoH2 player has ever been at a CoH game, comparably) have around 70% win rate. And I'm talking about the best to ever grace the RTS genre - Flash/Jaedong most notably. Wanting the top players to have some outrageous 98%+ win rate doesn't mean that there is some super deep level of skill that only a handful of guys are ever going to attain, it means there is a superb lack of competition (at least on the automatch ladder).

Even the win rates on the CoH2 auto-match ladder are way too high for normal ELO/matchmaking standards, proving that even COH2 suffers from a lack of automatch competition. Also, why do you (and a few other vCoH vets) get so upset/annoyed when a new player can enter the scene and succeed? Shouldn't new blood entering and being good at a high level be a good sign? I mean, that's certainly how it works for every other competitive game ever. But apparently new guys actually winning things or getting to the top of the ladder is bad in the (fucking awful) CoH community.

Perhaps I should leave this to myself, but frankly I've had more than I can take - the constant spewing of complete garbage by a handful of players in this community gets so tiresome that it makes me never want to touch this game again. Honestly this might be the most toxic community I've ever been a part of. Instead of celebrating competition and success people cry that the old vCoH guys (most of which don't even play the game) aren't instantly/always the best. Such a shame that this site has gone so downhill in the past few months.

If you guys really want the game to succeed and really want the community to grow you really have to look at the way in which you're approaching the whole thing. I'm not saying everything needs to be all happy all the time. Constructive criticism can be a great thing, but damn... some of you (Basoline) need to grow the fuck up. The horse you keep beating has been dead for about 6 months now, move on with your life.
17 Feb 2014, 06:14 AM
#434
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 926

+1 CieZ.

Annoys me these "has been top players" behave like their opinions are facts because they once were high on vcoh ladder.

Let me tell you, no vcoh player have actually been really good at the game. Me an average player can spot tons of mistakes on top players streams when you play, some even click buttons instead of hotkeys, scroll the map all the time.. awful mechanics.

Best part is when some even cry about "I lost because the other guy was faster at clicking, this game has no strategy". *FACEPALM!!!* Welcome to RTS and APM
17 Feb 2014, 06:28 AM
#435
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2014, 06:14 AMspajn
+1 CieZ.

Annoys me these "has been top players" behave like their opinions are facts because they once were high on vcoh ladder.

Let me tell you, no vcoh player have actually been really good at the game. Me an average player can spot tons of mistakes on top players streams when you play, some even click buttons instead of hotkeys, scroll the map all the time.. awful mechanics.

Best part is when some even cry about "I lost because the other guy was faster at clicking, this game has no strategy". *FACEPALM!!!* Welcome to RTS and APM


It indeed can be frustrating. And I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.

I do want to be clear though, I'm not trying to insult the skill level of any vCoH pros, most of them deserve the respect that they get. But when forum warriors try to act like there's no skill in CoH 2 just because the vCoH guys don't play or because former vCoH pros aren't instantly the best at CoH 2 is such a fail...

CoH 2 is a different game, different people will be good at it. Same thing happened with SC:BW / SC2. Some SC2 pros frankly, suck at SC 2. That's just life. Doesn't mean SC 2 is a bad game or that SC 2 doesn't take skill. Admittedly BW is probably the better game, but SC 2 still takes a ton of skill. In the same vein, perhaps vCoH is the better game (which it should be after years of patching/support) but to argue that CoH 2 has a low skill cap (when it clearly doesn't) is delusional.
17 Feb 2014, 06:49 AM
#436
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 926

Certainly they deserve respect, but compare to top bw players or even top counter strike players.. i have never seen a coh player do something that just blew my mind. Nothing wrong with that.. but stop bashing a game you dont even play and havent been playing for months.

The game is way better now than it was at release, but it still has a long way to go. But there is nothing in coh2 thats "unfixable". Really vcoh is unfixable after the OF expansion.
17 Feb 2014, 07:04 AM
#437
avatar of Kolaris

Posts: 308 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2014, 06:14 AMspajn

Let me tell you, no vcoh player have actually been really good at the game. Me an average player can spot tons of mistakes on top players streams when you play, some even click buttons instead of hotkeys, scroll the map all the time.. awful mechanics.


And you only had to move your eyes 3 inches to the right to see how absolutely wrong you were
17 Feb 2014, 08:08 AM
#438
avatar of HS King

Posts: 331

@spajn and @ciez

How was Basilone complaining about new players?

I would rather take the word of someone that has spent 1000's of hours in a game he loves and being a high level player over that of someone who knows nothing of the original game.

How is SC2 a harder game and why would the top players there be better than anyone that plays COH? and saying that who give a f*ck its got nothing to do with coh2 being a game that people can spam and have pretty good success, in coh if you played against a top player you would have lost in a few minutes.

I played against barton in a 2v2 and it took him like 30 mins to put me away and Im pretty bad at the game bro.. if you dont know Barton is probably the best COH2 player around atm

If you like COH why are you 2 guy complaining about the original players and casters who made the community great, came up with strategies and supported the games growtht?

If you cant get it into your thick head that these guys are disappointed about how bad of a game coh2 is and how much misinformation was given pre and during launch then I have no idea how to help you.

Ill spell it out to you - COH2 is only a company of heroes game by name, if it was called something else it would have so much less attention put on it.

Is it fun at times? Sure. Is it a sequel to what I'd consider the best made RTS of all time, no it doesn't come close.
17 Feb 2014, 09:13 AM
#439
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

^ Some of the 'veterans' here have admitted they got into the game post-CoHO. Many of us 'casuals' remember the vCoH v1.0.

Duh.
17 Feb 2014, 10:02 AM
#440
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1527 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2014, 08:08 AMHS King
@spajn and @ciez

How was Basilone complaining about new players?

I would rather take the word of someone that has spent 1000's of hours in a game he loves and being a high level player over that of someone who knows nothing of the original game.

How is SC2 a harder game and why would the top players there be better than anyone that plays COH? and saying that who give a f*ck its got nothing to do with coh2 being a game that people can spam and have pretty good success, in coh if you played against a top player you would have lost in a few minutes.

I played against barton in a 2v2 and it took him like 30 mins to put me away and Im pretty bad at the game bro.. if you dont know Barton is probably the best COH2 player around atm

If you like COH why are you 2 guy complaining about the original players and casters who made the community great, came up with strategies and supported the games growtht?

If you cant get it into your thick head that these guys are disappointed about how bad of a game coh2 is and how much misinformation was given pre and during launch then I have no idea how to help you.

Ill spell it out to you - COH2 is only a company of heroes game by name, if it was called something else it would have so much less attention put on it.

Is it fun at times? Sure. Is it a sequel to what I'd consider the best made RTS of all time, no it doesn't come close.


You can lose a game of coh2 in the first 10 minutes, just because the game doesn't end doesn't mean it is not lost.
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