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russian armor

Shocktroops at 1CP

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18 Jan 2014, 17:31 PM
#321
avatar of 5thSSPzWiking

Posts: 135

Viking only plays 3v3 and 4v4 so he's a strategy expert well known on official forum for his very accurate conclusions:)

soviets are op right now in all modes. you just try to get them to keep easy mode sovs so you can win with a cheat cp system. this whole you play 3v3 and 4v4 so you cant have a voice is bs. those modes have WAY more players than snooze borefest 1v1.
18 Jan 2014, 17:35 PM
#322
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637


soviets are op right now in all modes. you just try to get them to keep easy mode sovs so you can win with a cheat cp system. this whole you play 3v3 and 4v4 so you cant have a voice is bs. those modes have WAY more players than snooze borefest 1v1.


Love your logic. And Justin Bieber is a much better musician than Mozart because he is more popular....
18 Jan 2014, 17:39 PM
#323
avatar of 5thSSPzWiking

Posts: 135



Love your logic. And Justin Bieber is a much better musician than Mozart because he is more popular....

what? you guys are so elitist on these forums it makes me sick. THIS GAME IS MADE FOR 1v1 ONLY! WTF? THERE IS 3 OTHER MODES 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. the balance problems at 1v1 are even more of a problem at 4v4. Vcoh was actualy pretty balanced in 4v4 even though you idiots wont admit it.
18 Jan 2014, 17:46 PM
#324
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8

Just dropped by to say you're arguing a dense envelop of bias JHeartless. This is his player card.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198095880520

As you can see, he is a 4v4 german only hero.

Pretty much every single thing he says is pure bs, but by now everyone here should know that. Its surprising he wasn't banned in a matter of seconds on this forum as he was on official.
18 Jan 2014, 17:47 PM
#325
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

It's not about balance. Play some 1v1 to improve your overall skill and suddenly you will start to see things differently.
It's like magic :)
19 Jan 2014, 11:43 AM
#326
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747



As have I. But Muffin is right 90%ish Grens are retreating. This is why i employ the same tactic i have had to use against Pgrens for months....two Hmgs...

Gren Gren Mg Mg will beat 4X script into shocks every time if you at least have the most basic micro.


I'm not a big friend of MG42 heavy builds because I find it limits ones mobility too much.
There are some maps that heavily favor such builds for example Langreskaya, Kholodny, Minsk and there are others where it's harder to pull off due to the amount of cover available for charging and flanking Infantry (Semosky, Road to Charkov, Don River).

But all in all you are correct, it's a solid build that can at least bring you through the early game safely.
19 Jan 2014, 12:33 PM
#327
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8



I'm not a big friend of MG42 heavy builds because I find it limits ones mobility too much.
There are some maps that heavily favor such builds for example Langreskaya, Kholodny, Minsk and there are others where it's harder to pull off due to the amount of cover available for charging and flanking Infantry (Semosky, Road to Charkov, Don River).

But all in all you are correct, it's a solid build that can at least bring you through the early game safely.


If you refuse to use MG42 to counter shocks, then screen with grens and use sniper.
I also prefer double gren double MG opening against shocks. Its really effective and if opponent gets 2 shocks or more, simple add 3rd MG to either cover flanks or the previous two.

Its not most mobile strat, but its effective against shocks and it allows you to creep for his cutoff easily or hold half of the map without much problems to get P4 or Ostwind if you could harass his cut offs or fuel.

The only reason not to use MG42 now is when you simply don't like it.
19 Jan 2014, 17:41 PM
#328
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637



I'm not a big friend of MG42 heavy builds because I find it limits ones mobility too much.
There are some maps that heavily favor such builds for example Langreskaya, Kholodny, Minsk and there are others where it's harder to pull off due to the amount of cover available for charging and flanking Infantry (Semosky, Road to Charkov, Don River).

But all in all you are correct, it's a solid build that can at least bring you through the early game safely.


Yes and no it slows capping because of the hmgs. But you can keep them packed up. Then the grens screen so you can move around well enough. And the idea is to keep from being harrased until you can get a real shock counter. Either an ostwind or enough muni for a flametrack.

I like snipers too but the current bug sucks and adds even more micro.once this gets fixed ill be back to snipers.
19 Jan 2014, 20:55 PM
#329
avatar of link0

Posts: 337

I make 1 sniper for 1 shock. 2 Snipers for 2 Shocks. Bleed them dry. 1 Sniper costs less than 1 shock and owns them.

Once you hit vet1, hilarity ensues (pending RNG gods). I have a replay where my sniper kills 1 shock model with the first hit, then first an incendiary round that kills 4 more models. The lone shock model retreats, only to be gunned down by rambo sniper.
19 Jan 2014, 21:01 PM
#330
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jan 2014, 20:55 PMlink0
I make 1 sniper for 1 shock. 2 Snipers for 2 Shocks. Bleed them dry. 1 Sniper costs less than 1 shock and owns them.

Once you hit vet1, hilarity ensues (pending RNG gods). I have a replay where my sniper kills 1 shock model with the first hit, then first an incendiary round that kills 4 more models. The lone shock model retreats, only to be gunned down by rambo sniper.


For mere mortals this is incredibly hard now due to the sniper wanting to hold fire all the time if you have mire than one skirmish at a time.

Ive had my sniper just start walking towrds the shocks when i was focused on another battle. He didnt shoot once.

Once they fix this bug i will be back to snipers. But in the meantime a retreating ST is a useless st.
22 Jan 2014, 15:31 PM
#331
avatar of Unshavenbackman

Posts: 680

I think ST at 1 cp is ok. The problem is in 2v2 when your german T2 is useless because of the Guards at 1cp. Guards should be 2cp and ST can stay at 1cp. Moving ST to 2cp just means they wont get used again and the same meta occurs again: 5 gren/consc - tank = booring. Having ST at 1cp means german T2 (Fht/AC) is viable if Guards are moved to 2cp.
22 Jan 2014, 18:11 PM
#332
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

3 games as Soviet but 700+ games as German. Wow!

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2014, 17:46 PMKatitof
Just dropped by to say you're arguing a dense envelop of bias JHeartless. This is his player card.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198095880520

22 Jan 2014, 18:51 PM
#333
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
For soviet play right now is for girls, very easy to win, no need hability, just spam, all the units is better armor... The tanks dont decide the war, the infantry yes...
22 Jan 2014, 19:19 PM
#334
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 18:51 PMBravus
For soviet play right now is for girls, very easy to win, no need hability, just spam, all the units is better armor... The tanks dont decide the war, the infantry yes...


Let me guess, your ladder rank is around 20.000 in your good day?
23 Jan 2014, 16:09 PM
#335
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2014, 19:19 PMKatitof


Let me guess, your ladder rank is around 20.000 in your good day?


132/123...

But if the game are not Sov Op, will be much less losts... Half of lose you see the problem... With german 1 mistake is GG, with SOV you loose infantry tanks artillery (and come with more) and no problem! Shocks troops god mod is a perfect example of the Sov Op...

23 Jan 2014, 16:27 PM
#336
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8

You should start playing soviets and start loosing all what you say you can afford. I'd like to see you make comebacks from the losses you say.
23 Jan 2014, 17:31 PM
#337
avatar of PaRaNo1a
Patrion 26

Posts: 600

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2014, 16:09 PMBravus

132/123...

Is that a Win/Loss ratio? If Sov are so OP and GodMode why don`t you show us your win/loss ration with them?
23 Jan 2014, 18:03 PM
#338
avatar of Joshua9

Posts: 93

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jan 2014, 20:55 PMlink0
I make 1 sniper for 1 shock. 2 Snipers for 2 Shocks. Bleed them dry. 1 Sniper costs less than 1 shock and owns them.

Once you hit vet1, hilarity ensues (pending RNG gods). I have a replay where my sniper kills 1 shock model with the first hit, then first an incendiary round that kills 4 more models. The lone shock model retreats, only to be gunned down by rambo sniper.


That sounds about right. I love the incendiary round, but it has an rng range of anywhere from doing seemingly no extra damage(and no obvious stun) to wiping 4 men of a shock squad. If all that has to do with is unit bunching(I don't think that's all of it but I'm not sure) then that at least is somewhat predictable, but still not easy for your opponent to account for. shocks seem way too damn expensive for that kind of kill power to happen...ever, but something more modest and more consistent would be nice.

I'd still prefer they revert shocks and guards to two points(or the equivalent of the 1 point they used to be), though I admit the more I play like this, the less I'm positive that its necessary in terms of balance. It does feel off to me though. A shock troop can enter the game after a minor skirmish goes down. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure I've run into shocks even before the very first actual engagement has occurred. The timing is basically the difference of an additional conscript or penal squad that would otherwise have to be on the field so that the russian player can maintain enough field presence before shocks or guards unlock.
23 Jan 2014, 20:35 PM
#339
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

The problem with the sniper, which is the hard counter to shocks, is that it's so damn unreliable. The attack move is completely bugged so it has to be babysat and thts hard to do with shocks and cons with mollys running around the map decrewing Mgs and killing squads. It's a micro nightmare, a quick burst with smg or long range rifle burst could kill your vulnerable sniper the second you turn your head. Not to mention an IL2 strike late game which is almost guaranteed to take that sniper out unless you act fast and hide it in a bunker at your base.

The vet1 ability also is rng dependent and sometimes I feel it doesn't even work. Isn't it suppose to "shock" cons, stopping them in their tracks? If that's the purpose, I've seen cons take the hit and keep moving (even with the icon above them)! I know it's not suppose to stop shocks but be nice if it worked as intended. I too don't think 1cp shocks are a problem, I just think the hard counters aren't reliable and are very fragile. (FHT lulz.. Sniper? Lulz)
23 Jan 2014, 20:57 PM
#340
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Elite troops should still move back to 2 cp's. I thought the original point of increasing the number of cp's was to phase in units that should not be available at start but which could not wait till 1cp (DSHK as an example). I think elite troops, 120 mortars, and ost MT HT should all be moved back since they have large impacts on early game play. This encourages good T1 play and good micro, as opposed to reliance on elite troops to overwhelm Ost units. The mortars should also move back because of how good they are against infantry.

If you feel that Soviet abilities resolve around early game domination I would argue that the late game needs to change to facilitate Soviets ability to contest those long games more easily. Making one faction really good until X time is not balance.
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