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DAK's T4 is prohibitively expensive

is DAK T4 (including the armored call-in tech) too expensive?
Option Distribution Votes
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13%
Total votes: 23
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17 Mar 2023, 12:39 PM
#1
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

DAK's T4 tech is prohibitively expensive

you need to pay 350MP (not the usual 300MP for the other factions) and 130F just to get to a decent panzer 3 (not even a panzer 4), a 40F (too much?) AT gun and a stuka (which is pretty good).

why go for T4 then if you can just stick with T3 and spam light tanks to cover all of your needs? i suspect that the high price of t4 and it's underwhelming selection of units contributes to (but not exclusively accounts for) the rather stale light tank spam meta...

and then you need to pay 200MP and 150F (!!!) to get to armored call-ins, most of which cost a lot of MP to get, as they contain infantry squads most people probably do not want anyway (same applies to the USF EZ8 call-in)

the only solid call-in in terms of price is the one with two stug Gs.

the tiger costs another whopping 700MP and 180F, and even if you somehow manage to get to that stage, the game is probably almost over because of the overly fast VP tick rate.

these super high tech costs are made worse by the fact that DAK is a heavily MP starved faction... compared to the other factions, i find myself struggling with MP bleed all the time - losing an infantry squad like a pgren or an assgren is really crippling, and the armory upgrades (the half of which you actually need) are all MP based.

thoughts?

17 Mar 2023, 13:13 PM
#2
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 287

I think the T4 tech uprade is OK costwise. The P3 is relatively cheap and they get really good once they get all the relevant upgrades.

The cost of enabling the armoured call ins though, i think that's a little bit too expensive, given the cost of the call-ins themselves.
17 Mar 2023, 14:47 PM
#3
avatar of FeelMemoryAcceptance

Posts: 828 | Subs: 2

the tech for tiger call-in is too expensive
17 Mar 2023, 14:55 PM
#4
avatar of Aftermath

Posts: 82

I feel the tier 3 tech needs to be broken up into side techs to make the up front cost cheaper and the tiger tech needs to separated out from the deployment system.

The whole faction has a pile of issues that need sorting out, especially the MP cost distribute and the deployment system. I feel to properly tackle T3, you have to tackle the rest of the faction.

Check out: https://www.coh2.org/topic/111231/dak-redesign
17 Mar 2023, 15:13 PM
#5
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 953

I've only had problems getting T4 when things go really wrong or Allies abuse BS stuff to the extent that the entire team has collapsed. It doesn't take long to get the 80FU required for Pz III L and from there you can really start turning the game round with your scaling. Most of the time anyway. Assuming you are used to this uphill situation (hello OKW!).

T4+ is usually a winmore thing in my experience. The armoury upgrades make your upgraded call-ins stronger than their WM counterparts, but that's still 2 Pz III Ls worth of FU just to tech up further.

Tiger is just a fantasy at this point due to the extra tech fuel charge. Furthermore you are extremely heavily discouraged from getting it because it's extremely likely AT loiters will just vaporise it in one pass and a couple hits from the usual med tank spam.

If the point of T4+ fuel nerf was to delay the Tiger timing, it went too far, esp when the usual Crusader III/76mm Sherman spam never really had a problem killing it in a quick charge. For 150+180=330FU you can expect to face 3-4 Shermans or 5+ Crusaders.

17 Mar 2023, 15:17 PM
#6
avatar of FeelMemoryAcceptance

Posts: 828 | Subs: 2

AT-rifle counter Panzer 3. All is said
17 Mar 2023, 17:40 PM
#7
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

Tiger is too expensive, I usually get one Stug III D to deal with midgame Allied blobs and then start churning out upgraded Panzer IIIs (with the occasional Marder if Allies go heavy light vehicles) in 2v2 and 3v3.

Manpower is the big issue for the faction and I could see the Tier get some cost reduction on that value.
17 Mar 2023, 19:54 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8

AT-rifle counter Panzer 3. All is said

Stuart counters that whooping 130 armor.
17 Mar 2023, 23:04 PM
#9
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

I agree. The problem is the manpower of the callins. take the p3 callin for example . you are better of sticking to regular AG+ 260 callin and simply build the p3 yourself because that is more mp efficient.

prices of the callins and tier 4 should be this

tier 4 unlock 100/75

p3+ag should be 300/80
p4+ PZJ should be 400/80
stugs should be 400/80
and the tiger should be 600/180
18 Mar 2023, 13:47 PM
#10
avatar of über alles

Posts: 85

T1 upgrade to unlock le IG 18 or flak 28 cost 45 fuel, it's too much.

20 Mar 2023, 00:36 AM
#11
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

DAK's T4 tech is prohibitively expensive

you need to pay 350MP (not the usual 300MP for the other factions) and 130F just to get to a decent panzer 3 (not even a panzer 4), a 40F (too much?) AT gun and a stuka (which is pretty good).

why go for T4 then if you can just stick with T3 and spam light tanks to cover all of your needs? i suspect that the high price of t4 and it's underwhelming selection of units contributes to (but not exclusively accounts for) the rather stale light tank spam meta...

and then you need to pay 200MP and 150F (!!!) to get to armored call-ins, most of which cost a lot of MP to get, as they contain infantry squads most people probably do not want anyway (same applies to the USF EZ8 call-in)

the only solid call-in in terms of price is the one with two stug Gs.

the tiger costs another whopping 700MP and 180F, and even if you somehow manage to get to that stage, the game is probably almost over because of the overly fast VP tick rate.

these super high tech costs are made worse by the fact that DAK is a heavily MP starved faction... compared to the other factions, i find myself struggling with MP bleed all the time - losing an infantry squad like a pgren or an assgren is really crippling, and the armory upgrades (the half of which you actually need) are all MP based.

thoughts?


Have you tried consoling yourself by building a half dozen of the Carro Armato M13's instead?
20 Mar 2023, 03:04 AM
#12
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

Not to mention that a Tiger is one EZ target for skillplanes, so why invest 330 fuel and starve yourself and worsen your situation going for T4 units?
20 Mar 2023, 08:26 AM
#13
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

T1 upgrade to unlock le IG 18 or flak 28 cost 45 fuel, it's too much.



Leig 18 is extremely strong especially in teamgames so i guess price is ok
20 Mar 2023, 09:11 AM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8



Leig 18 is extremely strong especially in teamgames so i guess price is ok

But you are forced to get underpowered and not scaling pjagers every single game, because waiting for PAK to unlock is a death sentence against USF.
20 Mar 2023, 11:12 AM
#15
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 309 | Subs: 1

Well, the units in T4 are really good. PIII itself sucks, but is more than decent with upgrades. At least it is a bit cheaper than other mediums (if it wasn't for the abhorrent teching cost). Stuka is the best indirect in the game, only Bishop might compete. The Flak is really strong AA/AT.

The issue is that the whole factions is (once more) badly thought-through. Having to go for Tier 1, which is mostly useless and doesn't even offer AT without paying another 45(!) fuel, is just too limiting. Then you need to go tier 2 as well, because you cannot really survive without getting something out of there (8rad + Marder, Stug D, whatever).

The lack of (mobile, handheld) AT and the bad timings (enemy infantry being stronger from the get-go and also getting out their tanks earlier) means that you cannot really rush T4. That's why the Carro is so prevalent, it fixes this gap while also being way too effective for its price.
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