Login

russian armor

Why don't axis factions get access to demo charges?

2 Nov 2022, 00:40 AM
#21
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


No. Do soviets? No. But they have them anyways.

Okay ill humor u. Do pios need s mines and tellers? Why not just a regular mine? What about MG bunkers? THey literally have the best HMG in the game

U can do this excercise about a ton of stuff in the game

THe stock demo is the only thing "unique" about CEs. Its just a design/flavor choice
2 Nov 2022, 00:58 AM
#22
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

THe stock demo is the only thing "unique" about CEs. Its just a design/flavor choice



So your argument as to why CE need demo charges is that it's unique?
2 Nov 2022, 03:35 AM
#23
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


So your argument as to why CE need demo charges is that it's unique?

No. U cut out the top 2/3 of my argument and ignored it

And ur not even getting the point of that sentence right, the whole point is that neccessity has nothing to do with it. Just like pios dont "need" tellers or s-mines, they could easily just have a "regular" mine like sturms/CEs/Royals. But relic made a design choice...

I dont get focusing on demos when ther is tons of examples of factions not getting things that others do...?
2 Nov 2022, 03:56 AM
#24
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295


No. U cut out the top 2/3 of my argument and ignored it

And ur not even getting the point of that sentence right, the whole point is that neccessity has nothing to do with it.


What are you talking about. That was literally your first four words posted to this thread: "Do they need them?" If necessity has nothing to do with it then why even say that.

The reason why I didn't mention the rest of the argument is because I didn't have anything to say about it. The answer is obvious: no.

But relic made a design choice...



You know just as well as me that the game is almost nothing like it was when it first started out. It's not like these design choices are written commandments or something.


I dont get focusing on demos when ther is tons of examples of factions not getting things that others do...?


Because I like them and I don't see why only allies should have access to them. Simple as.
2 Nov 2022, 03:58 AM
#25
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

let saying, Weh get demo:
- How can Soviet attack if every corner, shotblock is demo despite Cons already weaker than Gren.
- Destroy shotblock, garrison give Ost huge advantage on both defend and offense by favor line of sight, long range attack on openfield. That why Heavy Jeager doctrine which give Pios C4 charge is fucking OP.
2 Nov 2022, 04:08 AM
#26
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

Alies need Demo because:
- Soviet need to lay trap to bleed enemies, every ammu you spent to take 1-2 or whole german inf squad down that is your win. Althrough abusing demo is bit too much.
- Breakthrough defend tructure such at barwire, tank trap ( if Axis pick doctrine). Destroy important stuff such at OKW HQ, MG bunker, flak nest, 105mm gun, pak 88...v..v ( stay true on timed demo, C4 charge or engine Demo).
- Destroy some shotblocker, garrison which farvor Okw/Ost Campping side or simple open new path for your attack.

2 Nov 2022, 04:51 AM
#27
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

let saying, Weh get demo:
- How can Soviet attack if every corner, shotblock is demo despite Cons already weaker than Gren.


How does axis attack if every corner, shotblock is demo? Because they're too cost prohibitive to just stick it un every bush and shotblocker the enemy could possibly go through.

- Destroy shotblock, garrison give Ost huge advantage on both defend and offense by favor line of sight, long range attack on openfield. That why Heavy Jeager doctrine which give Pios C4 charge is fucking OP.


Now this one didn't even cross my mind. Honestly I'd only ever used demos to blow garrisons. I didn't even think of blowing up the bushes on Redball to flank MGs. That's pretty brilliant.

Also yeah good point. Well, only one disagreement. Only axis panther, heavy TDs (and jagdpanzer and stug but nobody on allied side will complain about those for good reason lmao) get the kind of range advantage that could make destroying shot blockers OP. But on the other hand, those same vehicles can often crush those shotblockers anyways. Plus pak 43 already shoots through all world objects anyways.

You're right. Being able to destroy those shot blockers and cancel out flanking paths wouldn't really be that great after all for game balance.
2 Nov 2022, 09:41 AM
#28
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 282

Cons already weaker than Gren.


Stopped reading after this bit xD
2 Nov 2022, 14:41 PM
#29
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


What are you talking about. That was literally your first four words posted to this thread: "Do they need them?" If necessity has nothing to do with it then why even say that.

Cuz if they dont need them y change it??? UR reason could not be more silly:

Because I like them and I don't see why only allies should have access to them. Simple as.

But y stop at demos.... I like teller mines too. I also like having stock rocket arty. I also like having free AA when i play OKW


You know just as well as me that the game is almost nothing like it was when it first started out. It's not like these design choices are written commandments or something.

Of course they arent, but i dont think relic was changing design just cuz they liked too... IT was for balance reasons

Simple question, is demos being only available stock to soviet CEs a balance issue?
2 Nov 2022, 19:33 PM
#30
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295


Cuz if they dont need them y change it??? UR reason could not be more silly:


Bro. You are all over the place. Pick your excuse and stick to it at least. Either necessity doesn't matter or it matters.

You start off posting "do they need them?" and then you switch to an argument about "bro it's just game design" and then you get angry at me for pointing that out.

But y stop at demos.... I like teller mines too. I also like having stock rocket arty. I also like having free AA when i play OKW


Of course they arent, but i dont think relic was changing design just cuz they liked too... IT was for balance reasons


The idea is that you take something away, but you give it back in another way. Which relic kind of failed at lmao (obviously not just in this regard). Sure, OST can open up new paths and destroy buildings with the satchel, but they don't have huge anti-blob potential without the demo.

Simple question, is demos being only available stock to soviet CEs a balance issue?


Are we switching back to the necessity argument now? Yes, I guess it is, considering what theekvn said.
2 Nov 2022, 21:05 PM
#31
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


Bro. You are all over the place. Pick your excuse and stick to it at least. Either necessity doesn't matter or it matters.

You start off posting "do they need them?" and then you switch to an argument about "bro it's just game design" and then you get angry at me for pointing that out.

Lol im rly not, ur just not understanding what im saying

Balance issues create necessity. Demos are not a balance issue. Very simple. Only thing im annoyed at is having to repeat myself

I never said necessity doesn't matter in general. It just doesnt matter here, because there is no balance issue here... Now if u were writing these a few years ago when demos were OP, different convo man

The idea is that you take something away, but you give it back in another way. Which relic kind of failed at lmao (obviously not just in this regard). Sure, OST can open up new paths and destroy buildings with the satchel, but they don't have huge anti-blob potential without the demo.

They have by far best HMG in the game, the werfer, and the brumbarr all stock. They are more than okay against blobs

No to mention, demos are hardly a good blob counter anymore. Only total idiots will walk a blob over them these days, since anyone can spot them

Soviets use maxims, m5 quad, and katy to stop blobs. Not demos (anymore)


Are we switching back to the necessity argument now? Yes, I guess it is, considering what theekvn said.

I'm not switching anything, u can relax with that

R u rly gonna say that Ost is having some kind of struggle that is directly related to not having demos? Cuz I dont see what that could possibly be
2 Nov 2022, 21:25 PM
#32
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

The demo stealth nerf should have never happend. The cost should have just been shot up to 150 or even 200 muni so that using it wipe a single squad is far less feasable and economic. Now its just seen by anything with 2 legs and luchs atguns and jgdpzr 4 can be hidden easier wich is quite stupid.
2 Nov 2022, 22:05 PM
#33
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

snip


So it's just a design decision? Balance has nothing to do with it? In that case, if there were no balance issues to speak of, then you really don't personally have any argument against why OST shouldn't have them, do you? It's just "well relic gave them to sov only so thats why". And I personally think that is a bad reason, especially when Relic's original design is hardly present in its original state in any form.

But, after other people have commented with some actual reasons for why this shouldn't be, I am satisfied with the current state of things. So if your only reason to come in to this thread was to convince me that axis shouldn't get them, consider your mission completed, thanks to Theekvn.
2 Nov 2022, 23:22 PM
#34
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


So it's just a design decision? Balance has nothing to do with it? In that case, if there were no balance issues to speak of, then you really don't personally have any argument against why OST shouldn't have them, do you?

I gave u my argument and u ignored it. LIke i said, sure lets give Ost demos. But y stop there? U still havent answered that

Y not give soviets bunkers, anti-personell minefields, and a dedicated AT mine? The reason not to do it is becuz CoH is a game of factions that have many differences. Im rly not understanding y this one in particular bothers u more than any of the other ones

It's just "well relic gave them to sov only so thats why". And I personally think that is a bad reason, especially when Relic's original design is hardly present in its original state in any form.

U literally said that u wanted demos on Ost becuz "u like them". Thats a good reason but the one im giving isnt? Seriously?


But, after other people have commented with some actual reasons for why this shouldn't be, I am satisfied with the current state of things. So if your only reason to come in to this thread was to convince me that axis shouldn't get them, consider your mission completed, thanks to Theekvn.

Only thing i was trying to convince u of is that just becuz u like or dislike something, u need a better reason than that to make a change...
2 Nov 2022, 23:56 PM
#35
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

U literally said that u wanted demos on Ost becuz "u like them". Thats a good reason but the one im giving isnt? Seriously?

No, that's not my only reason. I also dislike it because I think it's very useful in many situations, and thought that it had ought to be available to both sides because of this reason. As it turns out, it would be bad for the balance if the axis had the ability to destroy shot blockers and such early game. So therefore I changed my mind.

Only thing i was trying to convince u of is that just becuz u like or dislike something, u need a better reason than that to make a change...


I would have told you why specifically I thought that they should have them, but you asked if "they need[ed] them?" which is a whole other discussion entirely, and it had nothing to do with why I was wondering about giving it to them anyways.


I gave u my argument and u ignored it. LIke i said, sure lets give Ost demos. But y stop there? U still havent answered that


Y not give soviets bunkers, anti-personell minefields, and a dedicated AT mine?

I hate to burst your bubble man... but they actually do have access to all of those things. So I don't know what you're trying to prove here. Actually, even besides that, I don't know what point you're trying to prove here. The thread is already over. I got my answer.
3 Nov 2022, 00:21 AM
#36
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1

bla bla who cares


wehr does not have demo charges, but soviets dont have access to teller mines nor riegel 43 mines


i think thats a fair trade off, to be honest
3 Nov 2022, 01:19 AM
#37
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


Y not give soviets bunkers, anti-personell minefields, and a dedicated AT mine?

I hate to burst your bubble man... but they actually do have access to all of those things. So I don't know what you're trying to prove here. Actually, even besides that, I don't know what point you're trying to prove here. The thread is already over. I got my answer.

Stock.... U know what im talking about dude. Pios can get satchels with doctrine too if u wanna be like that

Demos are only good for destroying buildings and bunkers anyways, and u can just do that with a satchel.... So this whole thread is pointless

3 Nov 2022, 01:23 AM
#38
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324



wehr does not have demo charges, but soviets dont have access to teller mines nor riegel 43 mines


i think thats a fair trade off, to be honest

Tellers are a thousand times more useful than demos lol
3 Nov 2022, 01:27 AM
#39
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295


Stock.... U know what im talking about dude. Pios can get satchels with doctrine too if u wanna be like that


No, I don't, because I wasn't even arguing for axis to get demos stock necessarily (although I did mention that satchels weren't vanilla). Satchels already got brought up in the thread. They don't have the same use cases though :/
3 Nov 2022, 01:33 AM
#40
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


No, I don't, because I wasn't even arguing for stock necessarily. And satchels already got brought up in the thread. Not the same.

They are used mostly the same now. Since demos can be spotted by anyone, they are pretty much restricted to blowing up buildings and bunkers. Most other cases its a waste of muni

Of all the differences between the factions this one might literally be the least important
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

360 users are online: 3 members and 357 guests
Farlon, nigo, aerafield
17 posts in the last 24h
45 posts in the last week
99 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44646
Welcome our newest member, oneandonlycarrentald
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM