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Thoughts on the M-42?

14 Oct 2022, 21:00 PM
#1
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 857

I think that the M-42 is alright in 1v1 (obviously in 4v4 it sucks eggs), certainly not *BAD* per se. I think that it allows for some silly plays like skipping T2 and skipping LVs. Especially in the context of a penal build.

What are your thoughts?
14 Oct 2022, 22:31 PM
#2
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 779 | Subs: 1

IMO its pretty bad


If it was like, dunno, 200 manpower I'd probably use it as a disposable meme launcher, for all its worth

15 Oct 2022, 00:01 AM
#3
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 898

Use it for funbuilds/games. It'll feed Obers and LMG grens badly in canister shootouts. I've had one success in blob smashing, with an inf screen, but they might have just been bad players.

Might be worth something when the camo is used for surprises on LVs, but two of them are quite an investment. Pure speculation: Maybe if the Axis players are very good with their LVs and PTRS penals aren't viable in the face of their inf.

Usual Urban Defense being annoying/potential high pressure outside of 4v4 disclaimer.
15 Oct 2022, 05:44 AM
#4
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2114 | Subs: 2

It was the right move to give the M-42 a buckshot shot, and an absolutely stupid decision to nerf the firing range to fist impact range. It was much wiser to leave the distance, but to make a buckshot shot would have been limited in time.

But speaking in general, the M-42 is the same vestige of the initially bad design of the USSR from Relic. Penals, M-42 is the fifth paw of the dog, unnecessary units that remained after this redesign and which do not make sense.
15 Oct 2022, 07:51 AM
#5
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1148

to make it stand out in its role as a light AT gun, it kind of needs something else, it would be quite good if it could retreat like the rakketen, which would synergise great with penals, perhaps nerf its penetration slightly so its was almost useless vs mediums. Beh hey its probably not even possible to make it retreatable at this point.
15 Oct 2022, 09:22 AM
#6
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 857

...its probably not even possible to make it retreatable at this point.


I doubt it. If the guy coding the Horde Defense Mod can get the Pak 40 to retreat, I'm sure that the mod team could get the M-42 to.
15 Oct 2022, 10:49 AM
#7
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 779 | Subs: 1



I doubt it. If the guy coding the Horde Defense Mod can get the Pak 40 to retreat, I'm sure that the mod team could get the M-42 to.


i have seen a pak-40 retreat in the base game due to fear propaganda artillery.



also yeah the thing needs a buff for use other than offmeta 1v1 builds - a cost reduction OR giving the shrapnel some minor buffs
15 Oct 2022, 14:51 PM
#8
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 591

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2022, 10:49 AMKatukov


i have seen a pak-40 retreat in the base game due to fear propaganda artillery.



also yeah the thing needs a buff for use other than offmeta 1v1 builds - a cost reduction OR giving the shrapnel some minor buffs


Maybe 200MP like you said. Right now 2 are needed to do the job of 1 ZIS but there is a MP and micro penalty. I don't think you can buff their performance to much as good placement can lock out all LV which can really mess up the opponent. With VET they can take can reliably bully Ostwinds, P4 and up they gonna fail which is to be expected.

EDIT: The other issue is the ZIS is just so good for the price.
15 Oct 2022, 15:22 PM
#9
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1502

It would have been great if M-42 was a LV counter in early game that can shift it's focus over to AI in late game through abilities/veterancy. AT mode in early game, canister mode in late. That way you can have them in the AI role late, and still have ZiS in AT role. (eg. M42 would be a maxim substitute, or something like that, no suppression, but better at killing).
Still, given how there will be no updates unless COH3 is a major success. I doubt anything will change (just look at the broken state the KT was left in)
15 Oct 2022, 22:26 PM
#10
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 779 | Subs: 1



Maybe 200MP like you said. Right now 2 are needed to do the job of 1 ZIS but there is a MP and micro penalty. I don't think you can buff their performance to much as good placement can lock out all LV which can really mess up the opponent. With VET they can take can reliably bully Ostwinds, P4 and up they gonna fail which is to be expected.

EDIT: The other issue is the ZIS is just so good for the price.


its incredibly sad that like 5% of soviet players went for making like six of them and decimating completely braindead axis players (85% of the team mode population) because they walk into 5 M-42s on shrapnel mode

they nerfed the m42 to complete irrelevancy almost immediately, but never bothered to nerf spotting scopes or spotting scopes + elefant (because the """nerf""" of not letting the elefant equip spotting scopes is not a nerf at all)



All ATGs cost the same, but the balance team response would rather be to neuter the zis-3 than to buff the m-42
15 Oct 2022, 23:06 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2022, 22:26 PMKatukov


its incredibly sad that like 5% of soviet players went for making like six of them and decimating completely braindead axis players (85% of the team mode population) because they walk into 5 M-42s on shrapnel mode

M-42 with 50 range canister shot was completely broken since it was able to counter HMGs with impunity faster than mortars, could provide AI and AT.

You are simply completely off mark here.

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2022, 22:26 PMKatukov

they nerfed the m42 to complete irrelevancy almost immediately, but never bothered to nerf spotting scopes or spotting scopes + elefant (because the """nerf""" of not letting the elefant equip spotting scopes is not a nerf at all)

1) M-42 was in this broken state from December until June so it was not nerfed "almost immediately"

2) There is no relevance between the M-42 and spotting scopes.

3) spotting scopes have received several nerf including:
reduced bonus for 222 and 251 and a delay before it can be activated.

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2022, 22:26 PMKatukov

All ATGs cost the same, but the balance team response would rather be to neuter the zis-3 than to buff the m-42

Is that because the balance team are a bunch of allied haters that only want axis to win?
16 Oct 2022, 16:25 PM
#14
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2022, 23:06 PMVipper

M-42 with 50 range canister shot was completely broken since it was able to counter HMGs with impunity faster than mortars, could provide AI and AT.

You are simply completely off mark here.



A single ZiS can barrage a HMG from a longer range than the canister shot, whilst being outside of the HMGs firing arc, and if the ZiS tried to do the same at the same range as the canister shot the scatter would be more precise and thus more likely to decrew.

You can only counter a HMG if you have atleast two M42s, otherwise the damage of the canister shot is slow to stack up and you can easily reposition, if not outright kill the single M42 because your HMG has greater DPS than it.

This also only works if you have something in the vicinity to guard the M42s.It can't force retreats on infantry advancing on it by itself.
16 Oct 2022, 16:40 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1



A single ZiS can barrage a HMG from a longer range than the canister shot, whilst being outside of the HMGs firing arc, and if the ZiS tried to do the same at the same range as the canister shot the scatter would be more precise and thus more likely to decrew.

M-42 (with 50 range HE rounds) was quite capable of killing or forcing a retreat on a hmg regardless of cover/garrison.

Zis barrage is not really relevant to that.


You can only counter a HMG if you have atleast two M42s, otherwise the damage of the canister shot is slow to stack up and you can easily reposition, if not outright kill the single M42 because your HMG has greater DPS than it.

One is quite enough. HMG has a range of 45 the M-42 used out ranged the HMG and as long it had vision it would defeat a HMG without taking any damage.

It seem to me that you have little experience being on the receiving end of the 50 range canister shots and you are wrong about the DPS.


This also only works if you have something in the vicinity to guard the M42s.It can't force retreats on infantry advancing on it by itself.

I have not idea how you choose to use your unit I generally avoid leaving ATGs alone.

Now what exactly is your point, are you saying it that in your opinion, the M-42 should have 50 range on its HE rounds?
17 Oct 2022, 01:08 AM
#17
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 857

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2022, 16:40 PMVipper
...you are wrong about the DPS...


Yes, I don't know how much DPS the M-42 can do from 50 range, but considering the mg can't fire back at it from that range, the DPS would be zero, unless I'm missing something
18 Oct 2022, 20:04 PM
#18
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 644

M-42 needs the ability to retreat like the Raketenwerfer and better Vet. Gaining its 50 range back on the HE barrage on Vet 3 would be fine.
18 Oct 2022, 20:43 PM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13374 | Subs: 1

M-42 needs the ability to retreat like the Raketenwerfer and better Vet. Gaining its 50 range back on the HE barrage on Vet 3 would be fine.

Only it is not a barrage but an auto attack and it should simply not have 50 range on a the HE autofire at any vet level.
18 Oct 2022, 22:05 PM
#20
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 779 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2022, 20:43 PMVipper

Only it is not a barrage but an auto attack and it should simply not have 50 range on a the HE autofire at any vet level.


I can guarantee to you, right now, that no matter how hard you try, you wont reach more than maybe ONE vet 3 M-42 in 10 or so games


these can fire constantly and you'll only reach vet 2 semi consistently, and one of the almost GUARANTEED stukas, LEFHs, or panzerwerfers will nuke it once it DOES get vet
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