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russian armor

since we are adding prototype tanks in game

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19 Sep 2022, 21:42 PM
#81
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 541

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2022, 06:49 AMEsxile
Realistically while the Ostheer is caped to 100pop, USF and USR should go behond 200pop with infinite ressource income.

Relic has a history of making Axis factions cool for the selling, suddenly they do the same for the brit and some ppl world is crumbling.


I agree on this post, just so based doesn’t hammer on you alone as he prefers. Guess what folks they’re marketing a product and tigers and magical repair tanks sold a game despite thier limited appearance or faith to history.

I wanna see a photo of a vampire halftrack stealing an allied fuel dump I’m wwii, or a flock of by then obsolete stukas strafing allied tank columns trundling through uncontested German territory but I can be real that we won’t find them. Why people are hung up on this I can’t understand, hell Sherman’s grew 76 mill cannons by popping and upgrade mid match in coh1.

This isn’t an argument for historical accuracy in this thread, it’s just unhappiness with a choice the devs have made. Coh as a franchise isn’t that historical outside (and this is a generous statement) the campaigns. It’s a entertainment product, no one wants to play a 44-45 Germany with volksgewhers with missing parts in the hands of old men and boys post Luftwaffe suicide mission ( Bodenplatte ). It wouldn’t be entertaining. So two games with borderline wunderwaffe was enjoyed. IR half tracks in a normal tech tree, king tigers always accessible to the OKW instead of a doctrine in coh 1.

Still hard to see the detractors as anything but unhappy that it’s going the allied way for some flavour.
20 Sep 2022, 20:40 PM
#82
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 240


This isn’t an argument for historical accuracy in this thread, it’s just unhappiness with a choice the devs have made.

Bingo. IF the game was out and black prince was crazy OP i would sort of understand the frustration

But its not, and we dont even kno how it performs yet lol. And that would be a balance problem anyways, not history
21 Sep 2022, 09:57 AM
#83
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183



I agree on this post, just so based doesn’t hammer on you alone as he prefers. Guess what folks they’re marketing a product and tigers and magical repair tanks sold a game despite thier limited appearance or faith to history.

I wanna see a photo of a vampire halftrack stealing an allied fuel dump I’m wwii, or a flock of by then obsolete stukas strafing allied tank columns trundling through uncontested German territory but I can be real that we won’t find them. Why people are hung up on this I can’t understand, hell Sherman’s grew 76 mill cannons by popping and upgrade mid match in coh1.

This isn’t an argument for historical accuracy in this thread, it’s just unhappiness with a choice the devs have made. Coh as a franchise isn’t that historical outside (and this is a generous statement) the campaigns. It’s a entertainment product, no one wants to play a 44-45 Germany with volksgewhers with missing parts in the hands of old men and boys post Luftwaffe suicide mission ( Bodenplatte ). It wouldn’t be entertaining. So two games with borderline wunderwaffe was enjoyed. IR half tracks in a normal tech tree, king tigers always accessible to the OKW instead of a doctrine in coh 1.

Still hard to see the detractors as anything but unhappy that it’s going the allied way for some flavour.



Bingo. IF the game was out and black prince was crazy OP i would sort of understand the frustration

But its not, and we dont even kno how it performs yet lol. And that would be a balance problem anyways, not history


Add ratte yes or no then?
21 Sep 2022, 15:23 PM
#84
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 140

World War II media have almost always been a Nazi's wet dream, probably the greatest success of that regime was cultivating their image to the point that, eighty years later, people still jerk off to Rommel's portrait.

Company of Heroes has always been a fantasy, full stop. I'm no more opposed to the idea of a Black Prince than I am to a Panther arriving to the battlefield in full working order.
21 Sep 2022, 16:42 PM
#86
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 541

Based, you know the answer to your own question on the Ratte, and relic knows their answer as well on that vehicle but I mean reach out to them on Twitter and ask.

As for this post on politics and trying to swing the world had dictatorships, these ones were bad too German army was effective blah blah blah wasn't aware we were suddenly discussing that here. Post 85 is in the wrong thread that's for sure

But ill humor your aspect of the "hardware" part, COH franchise the German factions have never been left wanting for cool not so historical toys.

So I reiterate my point as is being done so by a few people now, COH as a franchise isn't historically accurate.

We have a Luftwaffe that exists post Bodenplatte, we've had halftracks that set up some kind of New York stock exchange and steal US currency, we have King tigers possible in every single OKW match. We have invincible Stukas dropping supply crates on natural fuel points we have ostwinds, wirblewinds, flame hetzers and sturmtigers available in amazing numbers. Tactically deployed V1s also come to mind.

but oh no there's a thic allied boy with a gun that's bigger than normal is being given to the allied faction so its all broken now. Again I see the detractors as gate keepers to some skewed ideal of "realism" in COH and I personally see it as a hard to make albeit entertaining to watch argument.

Conclusion, Relic is steering their product don't its normal path. Some units and abilities represent the real history very poorly but its entertaining to have them and use them.
21 Sep 2022, 18:20 PM
#90
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13265 | Subs: 1

What seems amusing is the approach some people have about how "their side" has gotten the sort end of the stick. So lets seem a number of allied vehicles used that are part of Coh2:

Soviet
M5 450
KV-2 210
KV-8 137

USF
M26 200

Imo this thread is about the use of "fictional" vehicles and not about which side of the fence is greener or balance.
21 Sep 2022, 18:23 PM
#92
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2022, 17:32 PMVipper


Snip



For fucks sake dude
21 Sep 2022, 18:36 PM
#93
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2022, 15:52 PMVipper
Since we are into dispelling myth:

The myth that WWII was about democracies fighting vs totalitarian states (and thus good vs evil) does not hold much water one when one considers that:


The first smart thing Vipper has ever written on these forums. I commend you for once.






Add ratte yes or no then?


If Black Prince is not getting removed then Ratte needs to be added as well if we are going to be adding fake tanks into the game. While we are at it lets add the T15E1 as well (Super Pershing)
21 Sep 2022, 19:11 PM
#94
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 541

My post was pointing out the futility of the numbers argument in the first place. that is why we did get a King Tiger accessible to every OKW player and a Luftwaffe that exists post Bodenplatte. Again playing a dads army and boy scout 45 Germany wouldn't be fun so they bolstered them to make an interesting product.

The point stands that in the process of making their titles Relic doesn't need to gate keep historical accuracy as they've done so to the games benefit and it can be said that it has been a hot button to add some fairly rare and typically German units as they did indeed struggle with hardware issues as you graciously pointed out.

This isn't about Election issue, political numbers, good or evil either.

To return to the point we've had Relic add units they see fit to add excitement to the game rather than their historical weight, Black prince is welcome. They've designed the product around it and I don't think they need to abide some gatekeepers quoting numbers.

We have had fictional vehicles and items before, Invincible stukas, vampire halftracks teleporting resources off an opponent, distributed IR sighted rifles and a stock IR halftrack that are integrated into the tactical structure as if the troops would know how to use them. So I welcome the Black Princes fictional status if they've put in the work to add it.
21 Sep 2022, 19:16 PM
#95
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2

My post was pointing out the futility of the numbers argument in the first place. that is why we did get a King Tiger accessible to every OKW player and a Luftwaffe that exists post Bodenplatte. Again playing a dads army and boy scout 45 Germany wouldn't be fun so they bolstered them to make an interesting product.

The point stands that in the process of making their titles Relic doesn't need to gate keep historical accuracy as they've done so to the games benefit and it can be said that it has been a hot button to add some fairly rare and typically German units as they did indeed struggle with hardware issues as you graciously pointed out.

This isn't about Election issue, political numbers, good or evil either.

To return to the point we've had Relic add units they see fit to add excitement to the game rather than their historical weight, Black prince is welcome. They've designed the product around it and I don't think they need to abide some gatekeepers quoting numbers.

We have had fictional vehicles and items before, Invincible stukas, vampire halftracks teleporting resources off an opponent, distributed IR sighted rifles and a stock IR halftrack that are integrated into the tactical structure as if the troops would know how to use them. So I welcome the Black Princes fictional status if they've put in the work to add it.


They themselves said that they want historicity and authenticity, and they themselves add to the game a non-authentic Black Prince prototype from 1945 to 1942 in Africa, unable to clearly justify his presence. If you want the Black Prince refrain from talking about historicity and authenticity, we've already seen the price of promises in CoH2 campaigns.
21 Sep 2022, 19:21 PM
#96
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 541



They themselves said that they want historicity and authenticity, and they themselves add to the game a non-authentic Black Prince prototype from 1945 to 1942 in Africa. If you want the Black Prince refrain from talking about historicity and authenticity, we've already seen the price of promises in CoH2 campaigns.


I don't see how they've ever achieved much historical accuracy if you consider the vehicles present in COH 1 or 2 in the respective time periods.

I would definitely say that Relic has shown there is a caveat to how they abide historical accuracy to create an interesting product. That's why we have flame hetzers, ostwinds, 1945 fuel drops from invincible stukas and stock King Tigers and IR halftracks.
21 Sep 2022, 19:31 PM
#97
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2



I don't see how they've ever achieved much historical accuracy if you consider the vehicles present in COH 1 or 2 in the respective time periods.

I would definitely say that Relic has shown there is a caveat to how they abide historical accuracy to create an interesting product. That's why we have flame hetzers, ostwinds, 1945 fuel drops from invincible stukas and stock King Tigers and IR halftracks.


Why are you sure that these are air bridges of 1945? When the OKW was based on 1944-1945. And in 1944 Germany continued air supply.And the flamethrower Hetzer as was the Ostwind was used in the Ardennes Operation, event in which the game takes place.
21 Sep 2022, 20:08 PM
#98
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 541

I'm pointing out that any argument of historical accuracy was out the window long ago but they do stay within reason. The Black prince isnt very outlandish and if they have spent 3+ years working on it, its going to have a balanced place in the game.

I don't see why the gatekeeping was not in place for IR technology and the vampire halftrack etc and for this its suddenly outrageous. I hope relic has the sense to keep going with the unit in place, its not going to destroy the entire franchise.
21 Sep 2022, 23:06 PM
#99
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 240


Add ratte yes or no then?

Pretty sure i answered this already

If its balanced i dont care

When u suggested ratte it sounded like u wanted it to be crazy OP. I am against that, just like i am against Black Prince being OP
22 Sep 2022, 15:08 PM
#100
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1482

Funny how people think "If tank accuracy is checked, then the whole accuracy is as well". And vice-versa.
If tank accuracy is not "accurate", then the whole game historical accuracy is as well... inaccurate.
Silly people
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