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russian armor

When you have a konig you are invincible

24 May 2022, 08:10 AM
#41
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2022, 02:46 AMRocket

..........


OKW is definitely not as OP as you claim it to be. Currently the only real big deal with OKW that makes it much stronger in lategame than any other faction is the fact that KT is stock and with a bit of luck, can completely turn the tide in your favour. Even more so if you have the commander and spearhead mode on, since most maps don't care about turret rotation in the teamgame pool. Played against many many OKW players, both in top 10 and above 1000, and only thing that I really consider OP is the KT in their roster. And that's only because of the spearhead mode. If it didn't have the spearhead, then I'd say the KT is in a perfect spot. Great veterancy and great stats for the steep price and 3 tech structures. Spearhead mode should grant accuracy and velocity buff (not Formula 1 kind) for the price of the turret rotation lock.

Don't know where you got the idea that OKW is filled with Ubermenschen because it's not. If it really were as you are saying it is, then OKW would have +20% difference in winrates in teamgames AND 1v1s
24 May 2022, 11:16 AM
#42
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 75

Agree. Spearhead coupled with Elite Armoured is broken. Aside from that though, the faction does have some pretty glaring weaknesses that can be exploited, particularly in the mid game.
24 May 2022, 15:56 PM
#43
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 599

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2022, 02:46 AMRocket
and why is it an mg42 pr 34 keeps them once yellow pinned they stay that way? Most axis troops even microing a vickers will let other squads up once it focuses another. Its un balanced always has been incredibly stupid.


I think that's just a Vickers gaming moment my friend. Maxim at least doesn't have this problem because of it being the only Allied MG with good turret traverse and proper aura suppression.

Vickers is just the worst MG in the history of MGs, believe me.

The Virgin "I suppress the current target faster than the squads around them" default MG VS. the Chad "I suppress the squads around the current target faster than the squad I'm actually shooting at" Maxim
24 May 2022, 16:37 PM
#45
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

Still waiting for my Übermensch infantry and KT rolling over good Allied players in 3v3 :lol:

EDIT: And no, M1919A6 paras beat LMG Obers consistently, vet for vet.
24 May 2022, 16:46 PM
#46
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

Still waiting for my Übermensch infantry and KT rolling over good Allied players in 3v3 :lol:


l2p then

if you manage to get kongigstgiger you have pretty much won
24 May 2022, 16:47 PM
#47
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

Agree. Spearhead coupled with Elite Armoured is broken. Aside from that though, the faction does have some pretty glaring weaknesses that can be exploited, particularly in the mid game.


only weakness of uberkommandowehrmact is the idiotic choice between lv or healing so that means you either spam racketen and hope for the best or get a luchs and delay upping up a lot.

other than that, okw is best faction
24 May 2022, 16:49 PM
#48
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2022, 02:46 AMRocket



Yep. And no one cares the balance team think its their skill that makes it work this way. Allied td spam was shut down so you literally have no gimmicks as allies to win in team games. Always been unbalanced in team games now just the worst its ever been. Forum cry babies ever notice shit like allied mediums being able to run over and squish nerfed, but kubel can still push IS out of cover? cry about the comet but dont see shrek blobs retreating from a main gun shot from a comet unless it was a 1/100 jesus round, that the tiger or kt forces an auto retreat with one main gun shot. Fek even the panthers pintle does more dps than any sherman variant just a joke, maybe not in statwise but the sherman has to auto retreat and can never use its pintle to begin with so practical use ya know, 2 axis mainline snares any medium and its certain death just shit.

So added to okw since the start. Best stock medium in the game, one of the best mgs because it does what an mg is suppose to do pins multiple squads at once even vetted ones with out micro most the time. Flame nades on volks like other factions didnt have garrisons clearing issues either but doubles as an auto win you cant use cover engagement tool, put the lefh in doctrines when they already have the non doct auto wipe support weapons, can counter other rocket arty hard, and emplacements( buffed to do so several times) fwd retreat points, does significant damage to tanks and can take out a wounded one. , no to mention their trucks they give AA and are a giant roadblock stopping you from ever pushing them back and making it that much more difficult without specific team game partners to rcon and the 200 plus muni call ins to do it. But they have MP all day with super effecient units, obers that never drop a model and can build more than you can secure munitions to bomb as they are bombarding ypur fwd retreat and stuka the fuck out of you and you can only afford a pop cost of way less effecient units, you need 3 TDs now in teamgames as allied but then you cannot afford enough AI or your own infantry units

Keep crying because you cant camp mgs with paths as with put allies have no choice but to run into mg after mg retarded, and why is it an mg42 pr 34 keeps them once yellow pinned they stay that way? Most axis troops even microing a vickers will let other squads up once it focuses another. Its un balanced always has been incredibly stupid.


jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2022, 02:57 AMRocket
The other thing that would stop this is if axis didnt always had infantry support but they do because PGs and obers can literally just walk by 1919 airborne not to mention anything less and one shot from a tiger or kt means i have to start retreating infantry units, they dont no one is scared really of taking a couple main gun shots from anything allied, pershing use to do that but you know unbalanced only kt and tiger should even tho persh was still inferior


copium level +infty

25 May 2022, 04:40 AM
#50
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1844 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2022, 02:46 AMRocket


Snip


Preach. Like I TOTALLY get people who say that OKW isn't as OP as you make it out to be. I play plenty of OKW and it doesn't feel like a complete cake walk ever. BUT I 100% believe it's the idiot casual player's favorite faction. It's just way too easy to crutch on stupid stuff with minimal skill

1. A Move Raketens that just retreat after sniping your paper mediums and TDs.
2. Obers that are the biggest PITA once they are vetted.
3. Pinpoint accurate Rocket Arty
4. Best stock medium that gets great scatter with vet and best medium armor so RNG can fuck you over even when you play well if you get anything other than a TD
5. Obnoxious FLak Truck for "free" area denial and support weapon protector/ Truck City BS. Bonus for "free AA platform"! Fuck your offmaps! Side tech for your own AA or hamstring your build to fit it in to counter Sector Assault.
6. Oh you punished the Risk/Reward of Flak Truck and Killed it? Hahaha Stall for KT is next.
7. KT that's otherwise balanced but completely busted with Spearhead and/or Panzer Commander

Bonus Round Obnoxious Doctrinal Stuff that's omni-present

1. Fusies! Like Volks but better **Disclaimer you have to stomach getting pushed around before upgrades** then Holy Shit Minimal micro time! Bonus Vision! Great moving Accuracy so you can blob move without giving a shit. Extra Bonus for being in Grand Assault which is all around a great commander and allows for KT/Spearhead abuse!

2. Jaegers. Yay! Map Hack Vision and their Snipes more or less single handedly wrecks UKF. Extra Bonus for being in Overwatch.

3. Overwatch! Yay, Jaegers and you completely counter almost everything else with the most OP Offmap in the game **disclaimer, it's slightly more expensive after the last patch... nobody cares!** Hope you have AA! Oh wait it's 1v1 and it's hard to fit AA into your build? Well fuck you! Better hope they can't stockpile Munis! Extra bonus for team games because you get Howie too! Better hope you have an offmap and didn't pick a different commander to deal with the other OKW crutches.

Again. I totally get it. OKW isn't OP but OMG. It is easily the the one faction that I feel like I have to work harder to beat players with inferior micro/skill.

/endrant

TL:DR KT isn't really that OP aside from Spearhead abuse but dear god KT in the greater context of OKW can be annoying as hell and the straw that breaks Allies back.
25 May 2022, 06:50 AM
#51
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 625

That's a whole lot of best everything for a faction you say isn't op
25 May 2022, 08:06 AM
#52
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2022, 06:50 AMKoRneY
That's a whole lot of best everything for a faction you say isn't op


It's not the question of what's what, but if he's right or not.

1. A-move double raketen is definitely correct. Pretty much every OKW player I have encountered A-moves raketen behind blobs and when sh*it hits the fan, they retreat. Such aggressive A-move style is impossible with other factions. So it makes it easier

2. Obers, on paper and in-game do become terminators with veterancy. Nothing really to argue about here. Also stock.

3. Pinpoint rocket arty has it's downsides. I consider werfer to be better. I think I dodged 90% of stuka strikes, whereas much less werfers as they are circular and much more random. Sometimes they wipe 4 squads that are super spread out, sometimes they fail miserably. However, stuka is useful in taking out team weapons which are slow to move. And indirect team weapons are something you would use to help out in pushing obers back.

4. Best stock medium? On paper, perhaps. 234 armour, great AI, good AT. Stock medium going against other mediums which are weaker. But it's also a tad more expensive. I personally consider T3485 to be the best medium tank, and P4J the best stock medium. Stock medium is a difficult discussion because there are different things backing that said medium, up.

5. Completely true. Sure you can wipe it with certain commanders, but unless you got those, it's easy to defend. Even more so in teamgames where if you overextend to take out a flak base, you can get counter-ra*ed yourself. Still, it can be a good target to keep SPIOs busy. I'd definitely reduce damage/AOE on it and increase suppression.

6. Seen it plenty of times. However, if you do destroy it, you should try to capitalize on it. Unless it was a Pyrrhic victory.

7. You'd have to be absurd/in denial/too big of an OKW fan; to deny the power of spearhead, let alone when combined with the commander upgrade. Downright broken.

Fussies: sh*t early game. OP late game. Extended vision, a-move blob with great utility (and a highly mobile flare platform)

Jaegers: Wouldn't call them OP. They do have too much firepower for a scouting unit. In a really strong commander. OKW jaegers have the tank weakness since they don't have a snare. Compared with pathfinders: superior in combat with upgrade. Pathfinders become equal with 120 muni. Vetted jaegers can have up to 0.47 target size, and start with 0.8, whereas pathfinder start with 1 TS and can only have up to 0.71 TS at vet3.
Jaegers also cost more pop and come later. So all in all, I'd say they are OKish. On the stronger side of the spectrum, but nothing OP broken.

Overwatch: It is a strong ability, but then again, nothing exclusive to the OKW. With the exception of USF which doesn't have strong abilities aside from the airborne planes, other factions do have "hide or die" abilities like the AT overwatch, which is probably, currently, the only real way Soviets can destroy the super heavies like KT, ele, jagd.

So, whilst it did sound like an "OKW OP" rant, and maybe it was; I couldn't really find a major fault in it. Aside from the expressions.

In OKW I only consider the KT to be OP. Mostly because of spearhead and abilities it gets with certain commanders. Rest is counterable. I do consider OKW to be the easiest faction to play, with the least risk. Doesn't make them any stronger or weaker. Just how it was designed, which is IMHO, good. Don't think that OKW being easy to play is up for discussion. The biggest difficulty playing OKW is choosing a build order/tech
25 May 2022, 08:12 AM
#53
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2838 | Subs: 2

In the broader context of OPW, I think it is mostly Pfusies that are broken for team games. Once they get upgraded, they see everything, good damage, especially on the move, the snare makes it very micro intensive to counter play with LVs, and they have a flare to prepare every push. They are also in two great commanders for team games and can be combined with a KT at any time. They are an all round good package with at least "good" stats in any category and no real weakness. If they'd lose the flare and/or only get additional sight when in cover like basically almost all other units, that would go a long way I assume.
25 May 2022, 08:44 AM
#54
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

In the broader context of OPW, I think it is mostly Pfusies that are broken for team games. Once they get upgraded, they see everything, good damage, especially on the move, the snare makes it very micro intensive to counter play with LVs, and they have a flare to prepare every push. They are also in two great commanders for team games and can be combined with a KT at any time. They are an all round good package with at least "good" stats in any category and no real weakness. If they'd lose the flare and/or only get additional sight when in cover like basically almost all other units, that would go a long way I assume.


It's the cancerous G43 moving accuracy that needs to go. You can just blob 4 pfusilier squads and right click opponent's cutoff and they'll kill everyone on their way there without any further input. Even worse is that G43s have long range damage which is slightly better than their kar98s. It's an a-move blob that can frontally decrew a 50 cal from long range and easily dodges the traditional blob counters like Scotts/Rocket arty.
25 May 2022, 08:58 AM
#55
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

In the broader context of OPW, I think it is mostly Pfusies that are broken for team games. Once they get upgraded, they see everything, good damage, especially on the move, the snare makes it very micro intensive to counter play with LVs, and they have a flare to prepare every push. They are also in two great commanders for team games and can be combined with a KT at any time. They are an all round good package with at least "good" stats in any category and no real weakness. If they'd lose the flare and/or only get additional sight when in cover like basically almost all other units, that would go a long way I assume.


The issue about okw in team mode is that the faction is overstat'd with many units and VERY powerful abilities in tandem:

KT + lefh
KT + pak-43 + LEFH
KT + LEFH + extreme plane loiter
KT + sturmtiger
KT + offmap "delete frontline" artillery
KT + rocket arty
Jagdtiger + delete frontline artillery + cover entire area in smoke
Sturm officer (support unit with OBER models) + Panzerfusiliers (S tier infantry with the best move accuracy in the game on upgrade) = forces retreat on machine guns and the defense falls apart, or guarantees to outnumber defenders
Panzerfusiliers + stuka smoke drops = cover essentially the entire enemy defense in a fast and quite large smoke drop, making frontal blob assaults significantly easier (also fuck MG based defense, amirite?)

the classic raketen blob a-move and insta retreat tactic that is frequent in 3v3

Elite armor: panzer commander gives free vision and hard counters AT guns, heat shells make your tanks decimate enemy armor, and an early game LV harass tool. I am really understating how op heat shells are but whatever

Obers give way to strong late game infantry
Jaeger light infantry give way to "what the fuck how did my squad lose a model on a single volley hit"
KT + jagdpanzer IV/70 to counter enemy TDs or opposing armor
kubelwagen gives way to a cheap map hack (also an annoying as FUCK harass tool, its so speedy its rather easy to get it to vet 5)



pfus are really good but there's a plethora of tools that are just as good or better in certain situations , okw might be the most complete faction of WFA because they really don't lack anything
25 May 2022, 09:01 AM
#56
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13149 | Subs: 1



It's the cancerous G43 moving accuracy that needs to go. You can just blob 4 pfusilier squads and right click opponent's cutoff and they'll kill everyone on their way there without any further input. Even worse is that G43s have long range damage which is slightly better than their kar98s. It's an a-move blob that can frontally decrew a 50 cal from long range and easily dodges the traditional blob counters like Scotts/Rocket arty.

Any idea how much far moving DPS a Penal squad has?
25 May 2022, 09:01 AM
#57
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

Agree. Spearhead coupled with Elite Armoured is broken. Aside from that though, the faction does have some pretty glaring weaknesses that can be exploited, particularly in the mid game.


like what weakness?



their biggest weakness is badly placed tech structures that allow for allied players to destroy them and hinder the OKW player significantly. arty spam should be the go to tool for any offensive OKW hq placement
25 May 2022, 09:06 AM
#58
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2022, 09:01 AMVipper

Any idea how much far moving DPS a Penal squad has?


Don't SVTs have 0.5 moving accuracy?
25 May 2022, 09:14 AM
#59
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1



Don't SVTs have 0.5 moving accuracy?


he's trying some "gotcha" card to show how his main faction isn't actually strong


isn't the moving accuracy of G-43s some insane number like 0.8 or 0.9, meaning that they have almost no reduced damage on the move?
25 May 2022, 09:18 AM
#60
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2838 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2022, 09:01 AMVipper

Any idea how much far moving DPS a Penal squad has?

If you could explain how that is related to the broader topic of OKW and Pfusies, and why Penals and Pfusies should be comparable, that would be great.
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