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[CoH3] Auto-vaulting

Thoughts about Auto-Vaulting?
Option Distribution Votes
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70%
Total votes: 37
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
18 Apr 2022, 14:01 PM
#1
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2758 | Subs: 4

I would like to use this thread to gather some opinions about the new Auto-vaulting mechanic in CoH3. For those who don't know, squads in CoH3 now always jump over obstacles like fences automatically, you cannot do it manually anymore.

I will start by saying that I dislike this new feature. Here is why:

Auto-vaulting sucks in combat

In a gunfight, you want to maximize your dps by shooting as long as possible of course. However, (unintended) vaulting interrupts this action and therefore decreases your damage output. There is also the terrible issue where some squadmembers vault over cover instead of using it. I think autovault during combat does nothing apart from being extremely annoying

Auto-vaulting takes control away from the player

Being able to select a tiny chunk of fence to vault over with pinpoint accuracy is extremely important in order to execute precise movement, necessary to avoid HMG arcs, mines or the line of sight of your enemy. It also plays a minor role in the control over how much you want to space your squad out which can be important. Auto-vaulting hurts this aspect of CoH.


Auto-vaulting on retreat is overpowered

You want to make a risky play and wipe a squad on retreat? Good luck with that when your vehicles need to drive all the way around a stonewall while your enemy just vaults over it with high running speed.


"Necessary vs unnecessary micro"

Precision-Vaulting like in CoH2 is a prime example for necessary micro, as explained above. It gives you access to precise movement required to play the game how you want. It also is mostly un-intended during combat, therefore should require player input! Not to mention how auto-vaulting nullifies the map balance where mapmakers create fences in a certain way so one side can reach the area faster than the other, unless you do the input like in CoH2.

A good example for "unnecessary" micro was the spam-clicking in CoH1 when you wanted a vehicle to reverse long distances, which is why the reverse hotkey got added to CoH2. A massive QoL improvement and stark contrast to auto vaulting in my opinion. This whole auto-vault feature feels like something you would expect from a RTS that you play on Console with a Gamepad, but not in a CoH PC game!


Conclusion: I am not asking to completely scrap this feature, but to give us the ability to make it an optional choice. Make it so you have to press a new hotkey for auto-vault (similar to attack-move but now the name is "vault move" :snfPeter: ) or give us the option to disable it completely in the menu or something.
18 Apr 2022, 14:06 PM
#2
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

Absolutely a welcome change.

For every one good "vaulting play" (if you could call it that) there are 1500 missclicks that were aiming for the green button to cover. Factions with "tight" sandbags (OKW, OST, UKF) especially get that.

Vault on retreat may reward aggressive plays on cutoff, which I honestly am OK with.
18 Apr 2022, 15:01 PM
#3
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

It should be a toggle ability. When I played COH3 the Auto-Vaulting was annoying because every time I clicked to go into green cover (like a fence) the squad would jump over it instead.
18 Apr 2022, 15:03 PM
#4
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 811 | Subs: 3

18 Apr 2022, 15:23 PM
#5
avatar of Tittendachs

Posts: 115

I have a very strong feeling about this "feature"

CopyPasta from official COH3 Forums:

My interest in COH games has always been competitive PvP MP. I can understand that most people don't want to tell their units every movement individually when playing SP or AI battles. But when it comes to competitive play I want to have full control over my units. This includes the decision to vault or not vault.
One of the most frustrating features for me in current COH2 is the "auto seek cover" --> for those who don't know what I am talking about:
Units seek yellow and green cover automatically. This can result in units not capping points, because they leave the capture circle for that sweet sweet crater just outside. Even worse they clump up in the precious cover and get easily wiped by stray indirect fire, such as mortar rounds. I would be glad if this "feature" were to be removed from PvP MP in current COH2 as it has heavy rage potential (for me anyways). I fear the "auto-vaulting" will be much the same, if not worse...

TLDR: In PvP MP please leave unit control in the players hands. Don't include any more "auto" functions even if you think they work great. I want to give my untis orders and expect them to do exactly what they are told. I have no need for having to guess what the game thinks it should let them do...
18 Apr 2022, 15:34 PM
#6
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

I have a very strong feeling about this "feature"

CopyPasta from official COH3 Forums:

My interest in COH games has always been competitive PvP MP. [...]


Did not bother reading after that. COH never was and never will be "competitive PvP MP game". Every attempt at that have failed with the abomination that is today's COH2. Symmetrical design should never and will never work for COH.

However, if COH3 is a decent game overall, it would be natural to have a competitive season system. That's ok, but way too far down the line.
18 Apr 2022, 19:45 PM
#7
avatar of NoktDraz

Posts: 44

I feel like auto-vault is a feature that should be in the game, but in the form of a toggle or key combination, like ALT+RClick.
19 Apr 2022, 12:44 PM
#8
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2758 | Subs: 4

I feel like auto-vault is a feature that should be in the game, but in the form of a toggle or key combination, like ALT+RClick.


agree, that would be a way where I support this feature
19 Apr 2022, 13:37 PM
#9
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Not a fan of auto vaulting on retreat at all.
19 Apr 2022, 15:32 PM
#10
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 990 | Subs: 1

I think the whole thing with auto-vaulting was added because technically speaking vCoH maps were much more open in this regards, with most of the path blocking objects being part of the map balance.

At the same time Relic most likely decided to keep vaulting as a neat CoH2 feature.

Logical solutions would be:
1) Disable auto-vaulting when it combat
2) Disable auto-vaulting, during retreat, over objects which cant be run over by LVs

Overall the only problems it created in alpha - unintentional vaulting over cover, you wanted your squad in and it was hard sometimes to chase with LVs.

But again, I am personally not a fan of LV wipe chases, especially brain dead ones. Since in alpha it was super easy to wipe retreating units, I would rather see squad dying during retreat faster but be a faster to retreat in return, rather then making it similar to CoH2 with idiotic micro intensive body-blocking and LV chases across all map.
19 Apr 2022, 16:12 PM
#11
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 262

I dont have a strong opinion yet, but i think, that a lot will come down on how the maps are build and if auto vaulting will blend in and feel natural.

19 Apr 2022, 17:31 PM
#12
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

I feel like auto-vault is a feature that should be in the game, but in the form of a toggle or key combination, like ALT+RClick.


I think this would be ideal if it's able to be implemented. Where the "alt" is just code for "go here in the shortest route possible vaulting everything"

Otherwise an exception of auto-vaulting being disabled during combat would be my 2nd choice. I'm sure that's doable as they can code "in combat" in COH2 for stuff like auto-sprint.

Otherwise I don't think it's strictly necessary with good map design. Vaulting was only super annoying on certain legacy maps like Vaux Farmlands. I feel like with the involvement of map making veterans and lessons from COH2 that you can head off map-related vaulting issues.
19 Apr 2022, 20:46 PM
#13
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1762 | Subs: 2

Vaulting was only super annoying on certain legacy maps like Vaux Farmlands.

It seemed like Relic made put extra fences everywhere to showcase vaulting. Since that was an old feature maybe they wont put fences everywhere now.
19 Apr 2022, 22:41 PM
#14
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 811 | Subs: 3

To be honest, if they bring it, i will just abuse it and one shot all squads i possibly can and then make awesome compilations with the rage chats of the people losing the squad
23 Apr 2022, 20:22 PM
#15
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3047

Absolutely a welcome change.

For every one good "vaulting play" (if you could call it that) there are 1500 missclicks that were aiming for the green button to cover. Factions with "tight" sandbags (OKW, OST, UKF) especially get that.

Vault on retreat may reward aggressive plays on cutoff, which I honestly am OK with.

Right click and drag on cover solves this issue.

Usually gives you better squad spacing too.
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