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USF Pathfinder spam is too efficient (2v2)

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6 Apr 2022, 16:15 PM
#21
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197

I highly encourage anyone who has not yet watched the video linked in OP to watch it. It is top players' experience that pathfinder spam is the strongest strat to deal with. Gachi's comments were on point and Esxile's point of view, despite being on the whiny side, to some extent I agree with it, but I think the issue lies in USF weapon upgrades being strong en masse in late-game and unaffordable in early-game, which affects Riflemen performance.

I agree with Shadowlink's statement that pfusilier spam is braindead as well, but it's not quite as strong as pathfinder spam and it deserves a separate topic.


You touch something different than what I mean in this topic. You don't reach ISU-level long games when you play vs competent pathfinder spammers, because they win even sooner than that. I don't mean meta being annoying, I mean 1 strategy being undeniably and disgustingly the strongest way to play a faction in 2v2.
Also who doesn't veto Rails and Metal deserves it :megusta:


It all depends on the level of communication in the opposing team. If they are both braindead but know each other/talk during the match/cover each other you are 100% fucked if you play with random, even if you are top 500 material.

Same of course can be said about any kind of spam really: pfussies spam, JLI spam (boy is that cancerous), (insert stock british medium tank) spam, etc etc etc
6 Apr 2022, 16:30 PM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



It all depends on the level of communication in the opposing team. If they are both braindead but know each other/talk during the match/cover each other you are 100% fucked if you play with random, even if you are top 500 material.

Same of course can be said about any kind of spam really: pfussies spam, JLI spam (boy is that cancerous), valentine spam, etc etc etc

Valentine is limited to one...
6 Apr 2022, 16:41 PM
#23
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2022, 16:30 PMVipper

Valentine is limited to one...


oh yeah i meant the british stock medium (cromwell??)

anyways changin it
6 Apr 2022, 16:52 PM
#24
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

Paths vet too quick, increasing ther vet requirements is one way to help mitigate this strat without nerfing them into uselessness.

Another issue is the ambulance. USF having forward healing and reinforce at minute 1 is stupid and makes pushing USF back almost impossible. BUT This is only true vs organised teams though as if the average noob does it, tends to lead to a dead ambo.

That being said if you dont go this strat, i find USF very underwhelming in team games and the most boring faction to play with.

If there is any future patches and this Strat gets nerfed, hopefully at the same time other areas of USF gets buffed
6 Apr 2022, 16:54 PM
#25
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197

Paths vet too quick, increasing ther vet requirements is one way to help mitigate this strat without nerfing them into uselessness.

Another issue is the ambulance. USF having forward healing and reinforce at minute 1 is stupid and makes pushing USF back almost impossible. BUT This is only true vs organised teams though as if the average noob does it, tends to lead to a dead ambo.

That being said if you dont go this strat, i find USF very underwhelming in team games and the most boring faction to play with.

If there is any future patches and this Strat gets nerfed, hopefully at the same time other areas of USF gets buffed


Agree on the vetting of paths.

Ambu is more than fine right now. 250mp and 10fuel is a huge gamble in early game and the potential reward of forward healing works great.
6 Apr 2022, 21:33 PM
#26
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

Its funny USF always find a cheese strat, like broken mortars, WC51, now pathfinders and etc, because the core of USF is just lame them everything is better.
6 Apr 2022, 21:40 PM
#27
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1333



If you actually pay attention to the first game, OP provided, guy playing got 221 at 2 min mark, at 5 min mark there were already RE with zooks. I dont want to doubt strategic genius, but I will doubt that 2 mins of having kubel would have changed anything if 221 wasnt able to.



I might be, but fact stands that its super common tactic, almost all top usf players in teamgames (and even not top players) use it to great effect and even top players struggle against it on a regular basis. There are no common solution or basic L2P or adaptation problem. Its just imo the fact that this strat over-all is way too strong and countering it is basically concentrates around either badly outplaying USF player or him fucking up.

Is it fine or not this is different question, but the fact is as it stands out of all available strats in the game this one is the single one which is fully depend on enemy fuck ups and not your performance\avaible counters.


I would be happy to nerf pathfinders but can we please unfuck the USF faction in return for it? Please??
6 Apr 2022, 22:53 PM
#28
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3006 | Subs: 3

Grenadier A-move blobs with double pak40, 222 and spotting scope brummbar is also too efficient in 2v2 and what 95% of the wehr one-trick players are doing, but I'm not making a thread about that :snfBarton:

This pathfinder meta is annoying cancer but some people rly need to stop pretending like axis don't have some absolute cancer strats as well. And there is counters available for both OKW and Wehrmacht against this.

This whole 2v2 USF situation is the result you get with a map pool & meta that are too hostile for Riflemen.
6 Apr 2022, 23:40 PM
#29
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


This pathfinder meta is annoying cancer but some people rly need to stop pretending like axis don't have some absolute cancer strats as well.

Is it even reasonable, to compare axis late game cancer strats to a cancer strat which starts at 1 min mark and fully focused on ending the game before late game?

And there is counters available for both OKW and Wehrmacht against this.

Yeah, like smoke and blob :romeoHype:


I would be happy to nerf pathfinders but can we please unfuck the USF faction in return for it? Please??


I would be happy if paths remain "the only viable USF option™" and be better then rifles, but without a safe idiot prove bauble which decedents of pre-nerfed VSL use to grind their ladder ranks.
7 Apr 2022, 00:07 AM
#30
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

It's overrated tbh.
7 Apr 2022, 00:10 AM
#31
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515


Is it even reasonable, to compare axis late game cancer strats to a cancer strat which starts at 1 min mark and fully focused on ending the game before late game?


Yeah, like smoke and blob :romeoHype:



I would be happy if paths remain "the only viable USF option™" and be better then rifles, but without a safe idiot prove bauble which decedents of pre-nerfed VSL use to grind their ladder ranks.


So many words, and yet nothing has been spoken.
Pathfinders are cancer only if you are not the type of person to adjust and act accordingly. It's got one thing going for it, win early or...

A strategy that focuses on winning early is not inherently OP. Every 2v2+ USF player focuses on winning early. What should you do? Oh, I won't play pathfinders so that one MG42 can easily lock down a whole sector with pios due to retarded map design? And then I would like to go against heavy tanks and Panthers and long range LMG grens that melt everything? Oh I know, I'd very much like to play for the late game win
The whole idea that because one strategy is extremely early dependent, is OP, is silly.

Playing pathfinders you have:
a) No snares
b) 4 man squads
c) dropped BARs later on


I could easily say that equally cancerous are 222 spams on large maps or kubel spams vs USF on maps like Steppes (no cover, no OKW bleed, heavy USF bleed).

This whole thread is nonsensical. Just a circle jerk between axis-oriented players.

Imagine the argument: "A strategy is focused on early game and therefore OP"... fu*k me sideways and call me a bi*ch but it's fu*king moron*c
7 Apr 2022, 03:46 AM
#32
avatar of GoforGiantsV3

Posts: 86

Pathfinder spamming is not mobile, and 3 critical points are still.

1.POURING munitions, 100 to Echelon 2X Bazookas

2. Weak at obtaining grounds before brabbing finders BARs and placing 2X MG paradrop and 2X AT Paradrop. So If Axis avoids fighting and just keep grabbing grounds, then can reach to medium tanks faster than USF. So Push other side together can be a heavy blow to Allies. It can make resource Gap between allies and Axis but pathfinders spamming cannot move and support quickly.

3.Pathfinders spamming heavily rely on Team weapons too, so Cannot easily push with tanks and weak against german rocket artilleries.

So. I think it can be a heavy blow when the tactic punctured Axis player's thinking well. But If Axis defended or pbtained many points at earlytime well. Pathfinders spamming will bind USF ownself.
Although not like misses collapses Ordinary USF tactics. But it still steadily chokes USF itself to defeat.

It's not OP until now, It's Clearly high risk high return gamble. Airborne company doesn't need nerfs at all.
7 Apr 2022, 07:25 AM
#33
avatar of OswaldMosley

Posts: 62

So is the MG42, but people here sperg out if you bring that up
Also Pathfinder spam is overrated lmao In the few times I played against this, my normal inf in cover was beating them in most fights. They didn't become overwhelming until they had BARs, which by that point you should be in a stronger position to counter them not OP lmao
7 Apr 2022, 09:23 AM
#34
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197


Is it even reasonable, to compare axis late game cancer strats to a cancer strat which starts at 1 min mark and fully focused on ending the game before late game?


Yeah, like smoke and blob :romeoHype:



I would be happy if paths remain "the only viable USF option™" and be better then rifles, but without a safe idiot prove bauble which decedents of pre-nerfed VSL use to grind their ladder ranks.


Mate I am really sorry but that sounds like you're coping.

Again, we agreed that Path spam is a cancer strategy, however it is not the only one and FAR from being a click to victory.

Apart from the argument that counters are plentiful, like JLI blobs, mortars etc. just remember that if it were so effective everyone would be using it, which clearly is not the case. And no, Top200 using it is not really an argument judging by how absolutely broken leaderboards are.

If you do the math, you will realize that the USF player needs about 1000munis in order to equip the Rear with 2xzooks and 4xPaths with double BARS is in the 700s. In order to give you the stick you will need 240munis to equip 3 LMG42 to grens, 100muni to give PzGrens double shreck. Such economic scale is not possible if the enemy is constantly moving a whole blob in the map.

Basically, just because this strategy cannot be beaten by heads on fight but rather with moving around and starving the enemy it is deemed "too efficient". Clearly not.
7 Apr 2022, 09:44 AM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



Mate I am really sorry but that sounds like you're coping.

Again, we agreed that Path spam is a cancer strategy, however it is not the only one and FAR from being a click to victory.

Apart from the argument that counters are plentiful, like JLI blobs, mortars etc. just remember that if it were so effective everyone would be using it, which clearly is not the case. And no, Top200 using it is not really an argument judging by how absolutely broken leaderboards are.

If you do the math, you will realize that the USF player needs about 1000munis in order to equip the Rear with 2xzooks and 4xPaths with double BARS is in the 700s. In order to give you the stick you will need 240munis to equip 3 LMG42 to grens, 100muni to give PzGrens double shreck. Such economic scale is not possible if the enemy is constantly moving a whole blob in the map.

Basically, just because this strategy cannot be beaten by heads on fight but rather with moving around and starving the enemy it is deemed "too efficient". Clearly not.

Airborne company is the most popular commander (load outs) in 1vs1, 2vs2 second in 3vs3 and third in 4vs4.

Pathfinder do see lots of action across all modes...

That is actually bad for the game.
7 Apr 2022, 10:01 AM
#36
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2022, 09:44 AMVipper

Airborne company is the most popular commander (load outs) in 1vs1, 2vs2 second in 3vs3 and third in 4vs4.

Pathfinder do see lots of action across all modes...

That is actually bad for the game.


Basic english comprehension:

Not everyone spams Pathfinders =/= Nobody uses Airbone doctrine.

I have talked about it a lot in the past and I am not going to waste gray matter for you.
7 Apr 2022, 10:04 AM
#37
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2022, 09:44 AMVipper

Airborne company is the most popular commander (load outs) in 1vs1, 2vs2 second in 3vs3 and third in 4vs4.

Pathfinder do see lots of action across all modes...

That is actually bad for the game.


So you're saying buff other commanders.
Agreed
7 Apr 2022, 10:10 AM
#38
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2022, 09:44 AMVipper

Airborne company is the most popular commander (load outs) in 1vs1, 2vs2 second in 3vs3 and third in 4vs4.

Pathfinder do see lots of action across all modes...

That is actually bad for the game.



For once Vipper is correct.
7 Apr 2022, 10:21 AM
#39
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



So you're saying buff other commanders.
Agreed

If in your opinion other commander should be buffed you have it to say it yourself.

I have not posted anything close to that so do not put words in my mouth.
7 Apr 2022, 10:30 AM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



Basic english comprehension:

Not everyone spams Pathfinders =/= Nobody uses Airbone doctrine.

I have talked about it a lot in the past and I am not going to waste gray matter for you.


"Basic english comprehension:

Pathfinder do see lots of action across all modes...=/= Nobody uses Airbone doctrine."


The argument that if pathfinder where effective everyone would use them is simply silly especially since strategies is effected by many factor like maps/team's compositions/commander picks from team and enemy team/personal preference.

Pathfinder do see lots of action and that is an indication that Pathfinder are OP.
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