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axies rekt in 4v4

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24 Mar 2022, 09:20 AM
#1
avatar of Infi.ESA

Posts: 48

after 2 years started to play again to see how the things going. the game was cool, i mostly played 3v3 / 4v4 even managed to get under top 10 on 4v4 and 3v3 but now it seems to get one sided.

it seems whatever stopped the allied blob is patched to death on axies side lmao. i see the crying threads here, sturmtiger the lol unit is also nerfed. wtf ? hahaah i guess blobber cried so long until they did something. and now i see british avre with commets spamm. that crap is way better then sturmtiger ever was.

4v4 gamestyle is every game the same. most allied teams have 2 us players which leads to massiv blobs with pathfinders, mortars and forward med trucks. the forward med truck is such an advantage in the first 10min that allied team can keep all blobs near fuels. they smoke ost mgs and can easily flank everything. after the flaktruck arrives i wish u good luck with ur at gun to kill it, whole blob is focus on ur 1 at gun :D
and actually i see more and more mgs on allied side which make the whole situation even harder to counter.
the best games are by far without us players in enemy team, but as it is very easy to play 4v4 for them u get 1 of 10 games maybe like that.

the people here saying "playing axies is way more easy in 3v3/4v4" are retarded. playing allied first 15min is the most easiest win u can imagine in 4v4. if u cant get total dominance with ur blob ur a noob

as axies, especially okw u have a hard life without fuel for stukkas to kill the blob. now when u go to tec for leigs the blob will overun ur ass. when it comes to late and u dont go for jagd have fun to counter jackson superior range with ur anti inf tanks.

so is the intention in this game now to give allies fuel control and try to beat them away and wait for late game for heavy axies tanks ? wow thats so amazing gameplay here.

this game will be never balanced because it is impossible to balance factions for 1v1 and 4v4 equal, even vanila coh was more balanced and way more fun to play
24 Mar 2022, 10:35 AM
#2
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 156

I only need to mention this man's post history and his axis favouritism
24 Mar 2022, 12:52 PM
#3
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

thread lock incoming
24 Mar 2022, 14:11 PM
#4
avatar of Infi.ESA

Posts: 48

Ah well i knew this would happen instant. Ye lock it and loose more ppl playing this game. U should try to play realism or spearhead mod to see how a tiger plays in action and not this crap in the stock version. I would bet many ppl coming to coh2 to play german troops as i can this see buy the fact 60-65% searching as axies on 4/4. Just continue to nerf axies and loose more ppl then u can play vs the 100 vets in this game left. Only hope is coh3 that they dont make a different mapstyle then now like in vanila coh and dont nerf everything to death because of crybaby blobbers who cant play tactics
24 Mar 2022, 20:39 PM
#5
avatar of Grining Cat

Posts: 97

... "massiv blobs with pathfinders"...


I feel you man. This pathfinder meta is really annoying at the moment.
24 Mar 2022, 21:56 PM
#6
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 797

The pathfinder strat is defo very difficult (almost impossible) to counter in team games. Paths vet too quick and having ambulance behind them to reinforce is proving to be OP ( ive always felt the ambo early on was a problem, now more then ever). But without this strat USF is boring to play and predictable
24 Mar 2022, 21:57 PM
#7
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3358 | Subs: 1

How many times are ppl going to repeat that the Sturmtiger was nerfed because of bobbing? If that were true the mg42 would've been nerfed ages ago

The ST was nerfed because it was too good at wiping squads. Not blobs, just any regular old squad. With one click you could reliably delete a unit that someone spent an entire match accumulating veterancy on

Do you think soviet demos were nerfed because they were too good against blobs? Or maybe because they constantly nuked individual squads too, not just blobs...
24 Mar 2022, 23:16 PM
#8
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

Axis are OP in 4v4 currently according to Coh2Stats.com.

As I have said in another post Soviets are weak in 4v4 because they are so slow to get to the front line. This is compounded by more people only owning Soviets. So the lower down the ELO ladder the more soviet mates you have on your team.

Recently I had another revelation for allies in team games. Every game I play at low-mid ranks the allied players do well until their first tank comes out. The rest of the match their infantry sits idle.

Many lower skill players can only micro one thing at a time. Since axis tanks are much stronger than allied tanks, these same skill level players perform better than their allied opponents. Once they smash the allied tank they have free reign to smash the rest of that players army that is sitting idle.

Add to this the comment by Aerafield that allied teching is not as straight forward/easy for noobs.

The real issue is at higher ELOs. You start to see less 3 and 4 soviets in a match. And a mix of allies can be very strong and hard to deal with at higher ELOs.

So the current state of balance is good for low rank axis players but slightly bad for high rank axis players.
25 Mar 2022, 07:02 AM
#9
avatar of Infi.ESA

Posts: 48

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2022, 23:16 PMRosbone
Axis are OP in 4v4 currently according to Coh2Stats.com.

As I have said in another post Soviets are weak in 4v4 because they are so slow to get to the front line. This is compounded by more people only owning Soviets. So the lower down the ELO ladder the more soviet mates you have on your team.

Recently I had another revelation for allies in team games. Every game I play at low-mid ranks the allied players do well until their first tank comes out. The rest of the match their infantry sits idle.

Many lower skill players can only micro one thing at a time. Since axis tanks are much stronger than allied tanks, these same skill level players perform better than their allied opponents. Once they smash the allied tank they have free reign to smash the rest of that players army that is sitting idle.

Add to this the comment by Aerafield that allied teching is not as straight forward/easy for noobs.

The real issue is at higher ELOs. You start to see less 3 and 4 soviets in a match. And a mix of allies can be very strong and hard to deal with at higher ELOs.

So the current state of balance is good for low rank axis players but slightly bad for high rank axis players.


2-3 soviets in 4v4 is maybe 1 of 20. Nearly every game is 2 US 1 brit 1 sov. But u bring it on point, for skilled allied players it is easy to manage the blob + tanks, thanks to the combined mix they can easily dominate the early game and keep axies away from fuel to tec up.

As axies player u can only survive first 5 min without noobs in team. 1 noobs is enough to loose 1 fuel. On allied team this is not then problem at all.

Playing vs top 50 allied players is like this:
1 mistake at start, wrong commander or unit build order first minutes and game lost. A comeback vs US nearly impossible with mgs, blob + med truck after fuel lost. Also playing 2 okw on same side the biggest problem, every good allied player know how to rek you.

Hardest allied combo at start for 1 fuel:
US + sov: pathfinders, med, mortars, maxims, sov.mortar, forward supply truck, mg bunkers

US + brit: path, med, mortars, snipers, mgs, bren + with gun, brit mortar

This and an agressiv playstyle is enough to rek 80% axies on 4v4. Holding only possible without mistakes. If he gets blobs behind u on ur retreating path ur double rekt.

U know whats left for axies ? A little part i the mid game, when they manage to get fast a wirbel out. Thats the time they can dominate for like 1-2 min the game lmao. When it comes to late game, by far ther is ko superior in german tanks in this game. Only jagd left good rest gets sniped out of range by every skilled allied player


25 Mar 2022, 11:05 AM
#10
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 797

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2022, 23:16 PMRosbone
Axis are OP in 4v4 currently according to Coh2Stats.com.

As I have said in another post Soviets are weak in 4v4 because they are so slow to get to the front line. This is compounded by more people only owning Soviets. So the lower down the ELO ladder the more soviet mates you have on your team.

Recently I had another revelation for allies in team games. Every game I play at low-mid ranks the allied players do well until their first tank comes out. The rest of the match their infantry sits idle.

Many lower skill players can only micro one thing at a time. Since axis tanks are much stronger than allied tanks, these same skill level players perform better than their allied opponents. Once they smash the allied tank they have free reign to smash the rest of that players army that is sitting idle.

Add to this the comment by Aerafield that allied teching is not as straight forward/easy for noobs.

The real issue is at higher ELOs. You start to see less 3 and 4 soviets in a match. And a mix of allies can be very strong and hard to deal with at higher ELOs.

So the current state of balance is good for low rank axis players but slightly bad for high rank axis players.


No the real issue is the the fact there is a Strat being abused by USF. All these things about lower skilled games can be resolved by the players themselves as they learn and get better.

When it comes to teching, OST is the most simple followed by SOV. All the others can be confusing for new players, this is not an only allied problem. Whether a tank is "strong" is entirely down to how the player uses it
25 Mar 2022, 13:22 PM
#11
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

2-3 soviets in 4v4 is maybe 1 of 20. Nearly every game is 2 US 1 brit 1 sov.

For which level are you talking about? I am assuming higher ranks from our discussion so far.

EDIT:
An example for overall setups is:
Red Ball
OOWW -> SSSB = 201 games
OOWW -> BSUU = 351 games
OOWW -> SSSU = 188 games
OOWW -> SSSS = 77 games
25 Mar 2022, 13:25 PM
#12
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2022, 11:05 AMAlphrum
No the real issue is the the fact there is a Strat being abused by USF. All these things about lower skilled games can be resolved by the players themselves as they learn and get better.

My point was you can look at balance as being good because axis balance crosses from good to bad over the range of ranks being played.

But I agree Paths + M8s seem to be the most imbalanced thing currently. Of course once you change them, some other strat will become OP ad nauseum...
25 Mar 2022, 13:29 PM
#13
avatar of teckins

Posts: 24

this is not something top 10 players would say, i say you are a rank 1000+ with git gud issue
25 Mar 2022, 17:00 PM
#14
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 902

Lmao

You are talking about blob problems when OST have the best MG in the game from t0 and the best spotters for it.

I was ready to post a wall of text refuting you but i better not talk about 4v4 since it's the most cancerous mode especially with randoms.
25 Mar 2022, 22:14 PM
#15
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

I was ready to post a wall of text refuting you but i better not talk about 4v4 since it's the most cancerous mode especially with randoms.

Yes it is. I am broken, beat, and scarred from it. Just a hollow husk of my former self. But I guess if you are going to find something to slowly kill you, it beats smoking.
25 Mar 2022, 23:23 PM
#16
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

What is this thread ? If anything, axis is dominating in team games with MG42 early, P4 powerspike and artillery rain late game.
26 Mar 2022, 00:30 AM
#17
avatar of Infi.ESA

Posts: 48

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2022, 23:23 PMJilet
What is this thread ? If anything, axis is dominating in team games with MG42 early, P4 powerspike and artillery rain late game.


What at lvl 10 ? 1 allied mortar smokes the mg and what then ? P4 powerspike until jackson arrives thx to 90 fuel for t4 ? Lmao

This thread is about the balance playing axies in 4v4 whixh is really way harder to play and needs more skill to survive the first 15min due allied powerplay thanks to great unit mix with mobil heal truck which is the most OP strategy to dominate early game and gives a huge advatage the allied side.

Imagine ost has a forward mobile heal truck with retreating point near all fuels then u can try to catch it gl

Everything axies had to deal with blobs is getting more and more nerfed and ur forced to go for the supreme commanders with jagd and ele to counter the sniping tanks on the other side. Ye u can build pzk4 with okw, its great but jackson has moving turret ups.

If they would just make the us heal truck static like okw and pathfinders with 1-2 cp available, then this game would look way better
26 Mar 2022, 02:08 AM
#18
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2688 | Subs: 4



Yeah ok I'm pretty sure you made this thread after losing 1 or 2 games vs a sweaty arranged team or something, because nothing of what you say here makes any sense outside of the scenario of playing against a sweat team on a select few allies favored 3v3/4v4 maps like Whiteball. I play OKW 4v4 regularly (currently rank 3) and 80% of my games are chill as hell. Maybe one in twenty games is vs abusers that know what they are doing.

Fact checks:

1) the average allies random in 3v3/4v4 is a drooling doofus who goes penals or Lieutenant against blobs/p4 rush followed by a /Q. Or who can't beat a single gren + MG42 camping the lane on redball etc. Don't even get me started on the average brit player who has the brain size of a peanut

2) axis have higher winrate in 3v3 and 4v4

3) Axis is way more straight forward and easier to play than allies for the average player, because you always have upgraded inf, MGs, AT guns and indirect fire no matter how you tech.
The more durable axis tanks are also a lot easier to handle if micro is not on point. If your average ape allies teammate spams t34 or shermans against panthers and Tigers it's already over basically

4) Axis have access to rancid cancer strats as well and dominate easily on urban maps (of which there are plenty in 3v3/4v4) with metas like the Feuersturm blobbing near an Opel blitz

5) I am also gonna put an older post of me here, just because it's too good:
Oh and there is also the 4v4 matchmaking. We (a lot of 4v4 players that I know & myself) have a saying "Do not search allies 4v4 in dead timezones, only in EU afternoon time. You will always get unwinable games."











26 Mar 2022, 02:52 AM
#19
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556


What at lvl 10 ? 1 allied mortar smokes the mg and what then ? P4 powerspike until jackson arrives thx to 90 fuel for t4 ? Lmao
Captain + unlock is 50 fuel T4 of US costs 120 fuel and you need to pay 145 for the Jackson which makes 315. In contrast, OST P4 can be as low as 40 (BP1) + 105 (BP2) + 120 (P4) which makes 265 fuel. 50 Fuel window is no small time to abuse with infantry eating P4 guns.


This thread is about the balance playing axies in 4v4 whixh is really way harder to play and needs more skill to survive
lol


the first 15min due allied powerplay thanks to great unit mix with mobil heal truck which is the most OP strategy to dominate early game and gives a huge advatage the allied side.

First 15 Min. powerplay belongs to axis with their MG42, OST turbomortar and sturmpios.


Imagine ost has a forward mobile heal truck with retreating point near all fuels then u can try to catch it gl

OKW also can get a mobile ambo and OST has halftruck to reinforce from.


Everything axies had to deal with blobs is getting more and more nerfed and ur forced to go for the supreme commanders with jagd and ele to counter the sniping tanks on the other side. Ye u can build pzk4 with okw, its great but jackson has moving turret ups.

OST has the best tool to smash through blobs that goes by the name Brumbarr if you don't know yet. And before that, Grens blobs of your own beat the living crap out of allied blobs until very late game.


If they would just make the us heal truck static like okw and pathfinders with 1-2 cp available, then this game would look way better

US truck is a 1 hit from tanks and AT guns or 2 p.fausts or just a small spray with infantry. You are just coping. And also, JLI exists and are much better than pathfinders unless pathfinders are given double bars which is an investment of 15 fuel 100 manpower upfront and 120 munitions for each double barred pathfinder which means, they must be beating your 60 munition invested troops.
26 Mar 2022, 17:42 PM
#20
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 902

Alright time for a better answer, because this thread bugs me to shit.

  • OP is right in the aspect that late game allies have way way more advantages than late game axis IN 4v4. Jacksons coupled with Soviet seeplanes and the arty/ATGs Zises are killer to any Axis armor (with the decent exception of Jagdtiger/Ele). HOWEVER, Axis should (and do) win before game changing quantities of allied TDs roll out (ie. the phase where the first Panther hits should tie the knot to the game).
  • OP is wrong about the aspect of Axis blob management in ANY mode. T0 MG42 with 45Vision Pios can hold anything against even a 5 unit blob (with proper MG42 micro which, given by you claiming you play against top100s, is a logical conclusion). Not to mention the stupidly fast Mortar that OST can pump (not as fast as USA but the difference gets more than made up in the MG42's combat performance).
  • OP is wrong about the combat effectiveness of the forward heal truck of USA. Yes, it's a nice little gimmick but way way out of game breaking. First off, it's a soft retreat, meaning the US player must properly micro fragile <2men squads to bring them back and heal them. This kind of micro is impossible in 99.5% of players to be quite realistic. Secondly, it's a fucking LV that gets disabled by a single snare, neverminding the fact that a single mortar team can rape the fuck out of retreating squads in its range.
  • I immediately disregard any serious talk of "blobbing" problems in COH2, as the foremost indicator of a poor gameplay performance. If you get raped by spammers don't forget you are also spamming a mistake they consistently take advantage of. If you get outplayed by 3 paths which are a nonsnare/nongren unit, maybe it's time to really think how combat effective going toe to toe with them with grens is (HINT: it's not, build 222s idiot). To add to my point, Axis have by and large the best tools to demolish blobs, starting with very good MGs and going all the way to Stuka's magnificent straight path bombing, Brumbars, and Sturmtigers. Another hint: OST have instapin skill planes which demobilise a blob. Maybe use them?
  • OP is right at what I perceive to be the boring flow of a COH2 team game, where 80% of the action happens for fuel, then for stars. It's ridiculous and breaks the flow of the WW2 military style, which above all was a war of army maneuvering and not really a bunker down and throw shells conflict. Hopefully COH3's manpower points will fix this, seeing that if you take the fuel and spam your army there, I will take your manpower to starve you. Decent solution.
  • In the current state of COH2 matchmaking, coordinated arranged teams beat everything, even with shitty tactics. Sad, but true. Maybe you have had a streak of bad matchmaking where 4 allies gang up against a disorganized 4 Axis, but in reality every 4v4 I have ever played (minus decent exceptions) is plagued both sides by idiotic players, uncoordinated movement and hardcopin spam.


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