Login

russian armor

I think Ost pioneers should lose their sight bonus

27 Feb 2022, 21:52 PM
#1
avatar of OswaldMosley

Posts: 62

I have no idea why devs think pioneers should have an extra sight range than the other engineers in the game, but this is dumb. Ost already has the best HMG, the best none doctrine mortar and LMG, and strong line infantry. I don't see why they should have another strong advantage layered over this already strong faction.

It's already difficult enough to counter MG spam in the early game, the sight bonus makes it even more difficult to pull off successful flanks or can give spotting for their mortars while safe inside their own MG's firing arc when trying to counter with indirect fire. They should have the same sight as the other normal engineer units.
27 Feb 2022, 23:34 PM
#2
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

but you see, they have grenadiers whom are good mid/long range infantry from the get go and then become exceptionally good with their upgrade, but there's only 4 of them!!!!! how would they ever be able to fight back????
27 Feb 2022, 23:41 PM
#3
avatar of OswaldMosley

Posts: 62

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2022, 23:34 PMKatukov
but you see, they have grenadiers whom are good mid/long range infantry from the get go and then become exceptionally good with their upgrade, but there's only 4 of them!!!!! how would they ever be able to fight back????

Oh nvm, you're right. I forgot that Ost infantry is so bad, you need like, 10 gren squads just to fight against one single god tier riflemen squad or else it's GGEZ
28 Feb 2022, 01:30 AM
#4
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 625


Oh nvm, you're right. I forgot that Ost infantry is so bad, you need like, 10 gren squads just to fight against one single god tier riflemen squad or else it's GGEZ


everything's harder for fanboys, you're not special
28 Feb 2022, 02:15 AM
#5
avatar of OswaldMosley

Posts: 62

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 01:30 AMKoRneY


everything's harder for fanboys, you're not special

lmao wat
How does what I'm saying make me a fan boy? I literally play all the factions except soviets so this is dumb
28 Feb 2022, 08:59 AM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13150 | Subs: 1

I have no idea why devs think pioneers should have an extra sight range than the other engineers in the game, but this is dumb.

Here is why:
"Pioneers
Our aim is to encourage positional play and combined arms, which the Wehrmacht faction tends to reply on more than any other faction. With an increase in sight (albeit still lower than pathfinders) we are allowing Pioneers to help spot for their HMGs and other support teams.
Sight increased from 35 to 42"

It is by design.

Actually Relic was going to give the extra sight to grenadiers and proposed pioneers instead...



Ost already has the best HMG, the best none doctrine mortar and LMG, and strong line infantry. I don't see why they should have another strong advantage layered over this already strong faction.

It's already difficult enough to counter MG spam in the early game, the sight bonus makes it even more difficult to pull off successful flanks or can give spotting for their mortars while safe inside their own MG's firing arc when trying to counter with indirect fire. They should have the same sight as the other normal engineer units.


Although this thread has a better title is there really a need for two threads with the same subject?
28 Feb 2022, 11:37 AM
#7
avatar of Sumi

Posts: 132

Seems pretty idiotic to me. Pios should not have extended vision. Like there is an entire faction of USF which does not have sights and often have to play the entire game without it. So why the special treatment to ost? Given OST has the best answers to probably anything in the game. You can make a gren wall to demolish units at long range, pzgrens to demolish units at close range. Even flame pios destroy riflemen in close range before they can deal enough damage to make them retreat. UKF has it in the form of Pyro upgrade or whatever it is called. Russians not so much but mortar flares, t70 vision, su85 self spotting does help but still none of the factions have such extended vision for a unit that is so cheapily and readily available. Even the osts make 2x pios so you have good vision over your map if they are spread out.
28 Feb 2022, 14:54 PM
#9
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 08:59 AMVipper

Here is why:
"Pioneers
Our aim is to encourage positional play and combined arms, which the Wehrmacht faction tends to reply on more than any other faction. With an increase in sight (albeit still lower than pathfinders) we are allowing Pioneers to help spot for their HMGs and other support teams.
Sight increased from 35 to 42"

It is by design.

Actually Relic was going to give the extra sight to grenadiers and proposed pioneers instead...




Although this thread has a better title is there really a need for two threads with the same subject?


at the game start, UKF relies astronomically more onto positioning than wehrmacht does, but they don't get any minute 0 recon, do they?


Wehrmacht has competitive mainline infantry, extremely good support weapons (and possibly considered the best weapons of their class in the game, for their cost.) They do not really rely more on this notion of combined arms as you think, unless the wehrmacht player intentionally goes a build like support weapon spam, which isn't really rare admittedly.


28 Feb 2022, 15:42 PM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13150 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 14:54 PMKatukov


at the game start, UKF relies astronomically more onto positioning than wehrmacht does, but they don't get any minute 0 recon, do they?


Wehrmacht has competitive mainline infantry, extremely good support weapons (and possibly considered the best weapons of their class in the game, for their cost.) They do not really rely more on this notion of combined arms as you think, unless the wehrmacht player intentionally goes a build like support weapon spam, which isn't really rare admittedly.

(Great lets give extra sight to Grenadier like Tommies have and sandbags since we are at it.)

Op asked what was the reason for extra vision given to Pioneers and I provided the reason as explained by Relic.

Now if you want to go on rant about all thing allied are up and on all things axis are OP pls do not quote something I posted to post something completely irrelevant.

Quoting creates the impression that you are actually responding to something that in mentioned it quoted post.
Thanks in advance.
28 Feb 2022, 16:03 PM
#11
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

This thread is the epitome of cope.
28 Feb 2022, 16:05 PM
#12
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1076

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 14:54 PMKatukov


at the game start, UKF relies astronomically more onto positioning than wehrmacht does, but they don't get any minute 0 recon, do they?




Oh so just because the worst and most useless faction in the game relies on positioning we should ruin the balance of the most polished one right?

Being an antifanboy is just as annoying as being an actual fanboy.
1 Mar 2022, 00:13 AM
#13
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 219

Pioneer sight is balanced.
1 Mar 2022, 03:49 AM
#14
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

I have no idea why devs think pioneers should have an extra sight range than the other engineers in the game, but this is dumb. Ost already has the best HMG, the best none doctrine mortar and LMG, and strong line infantry. I don't see why they should have another strong advantage layered over this already strong faction.

It's already difficult enough to counter MG spam in the early game, the sight bonus makes it even more difficult to pull off successful flanks or can give spotting for their mortars while safe inside their own MG's firing arc when trying to counter with indirect fire. They should have the same sight as the other normal engineer units.


Both soviet combat engineers and pioneers have extra view range. And that was given so that they can be used in the field tactically i.e. spotting. If you can't counter mg spam then your a Newb thats just a fact.
1 Mar 2022, 06:20 AM
#15
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

I have already spoken about this. Having such a sight at the very beginning of the game is just a broken thing. Ostheer can take your fuel at the very beginning of the game without any problems in 3x3 or 4x4 mode. Enemy can know in advance where your Vickers or Maxim is located and bypass it or fire at it with mg42 from the fog of war. I suggested solving this broken thing by simply moving the 42 sight to vet1.

This may not be a problem in 1v1, but it's a big problem in 3v3 and 4v4. (And 4v4 is the balance team's favorite mode, just check the sturmpanther and sender profiles)

But there is no hope for these corrections, because the Ostheer is the favorite faction of the sturmpanter. As long as Relic keeps these people as a balance team, the game will have such strange things.
1 Mar 2022, 06:24 AM
#16
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268



Both soviet combat engineers and pioneers have extra view range. And that was given so that they can be used in the field tactically i.e. spotting. If you can't counter mg spam then your a Newb thats just a fact.


It's a lie. Soviet combat engineers have sight - 35, Pioneers - 42.
16 Mar 2022, 04:57 AM
#17
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 877

I have no idea why devs think pioneers should have an extra sight range than the other engineers in the game, but this is dumb. Ost already has the best HMG, the best none doctrine mortar and LMG, and strong line infantry. I don't see why they should have another strong advantage layered over this already strong faction.

It's already difficult enough to counter MG spam in the early game, the sight bonus makes it even more difficult to pull off successful flanks or can give spotting for their mortars while safe inside their own MG's firing arc when trying to counter with indirect fire. They should have the same sight as the other normal engineer units.


Because OST is the most babied faction on the game. They've been given so many advantages over the years that they were never intended to have.

Right now the best stock infantry units belong to OST. The LMG42 Grens with the early Panzergrens is more effective than BAR Riflemen, Bren Tommies, or Penals/7-man cons. It even beats out the Volks/Strums/Ober combo due to timing on Obers (and the lack of dual schreks).

This is hilarious when combined with the best MG in the game, T0 only 260mp. Mortar, and sniper too.

16 Mar 2022, 08:55 AM
#18
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 75

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2022, 04:57 AMCODGUY


Because OST is the most babied faction on the game. They've been given so many advantages over the years that they were never intended to have.

Right now the best stock infantry units belong to OST. The LMG42 Grens with the early Panzergrens is more effective than BAR Riflemen, Bren Tommies, or Penals/7-man cons. It even beats out the Volks/Strums/Ober combo due to timing on Obers (and the lack of dual schreks).

This is hilarious when combined with the best MG in the game, T0 only 260mp. Mortar, and sniper too.



You make it sound like grenadiers are terminators or something. I know their LMG makes them scale pretty well in terms of damage but come on, they are a 4 man squad and even with vet they end up being way less durable than most allied infantry.
16 Mar 2022, 09:04 AM
#19
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 1

I have no idea why devs think pioneers should have an extra sight range than the other engineers in the game, but this is dumb. Ost already has the best HMG, the best none doctrine mortar and LMG, and strong line infantry. I don't see why they should have another strong advantage layered over this already strong faction.

It's already difficult enough to counter MG spam in the early game, the sight bonus makes it even more difficult to pull off successful flanks or can give spotting for their mortars while safe inside their own MG's firing arc when trying to counter with indirect fire. They should have the same sight as the other normal engineer units.


no
16 Mar 2022, 09:24 AM
#20
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3465 | Subs: 1



You make it sound like grenadiers are terminators or something. I know their LMG makes them scale pretty well in terms of damage but come on, they are a 4 man squad and even with vet they end up being way less durable than most allied infantry.


Once vet3, they are more durable than any other allied counterpart except for Cons that are at the same level of stupid design made by the modding team.
Modding team gave Ostheer most durable tanks associated with most durable mainline infantry and we're wondering why only Soviet which have been modified the same way by the same team is capable to fight it at tournament level.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag Oziligath
  • The British Forces flag T.R. Sidewinder
uploaded by Oziligath

Board Info

223 users are online: 223 guests
40 posts in the last 24h
200 posts in the last week
809 posts in the last month
Registered members: 34918
Welcome our newest member, Leitzels
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM