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Tips to counter LMG Grens + MG42 spam?

25 Feb 2022, 19:20 PM
#1
avatar of OswaldMosley

Posts: 61

I was playing USF, build order 2 Riflemen + mortar team, doing the usual smoke and flank on the MG42 team, but i'm struggling because I'm trying to force the MG42 to retreat or kill it, but the defending Grens are able to cut down my riflemen before I can do that. Any tips?
25 Feb 2022, 19:54 PM
#2
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2665 | Subs: 4

what mode? 1v1 or teamgames
25 Feb 2022, 20:25 PM
#3
avatar of OswaldMosley

Posts: 61

what mode? 1v1 or teamgames

Both.
28 Feb 2022, 01:56 AM
#4
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2665 | Subs: 4


Both.


For teamgames:
Step 1: replace riflemen with pathfinders

Step 2: success
28 Feb 2022, 16:23 PM
#5
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 776

Banned
Paths are the way to go.

Also, remember riflemen are useless from long range. Always try to close the space between rifles and grens if possible.

Especially close range, where grens drop like flies.
28 Feb 2022, 23:30 PM
#6
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2665 | Subs: 4


Especially close range, where grens drop like flies.


Too bad that riflemen already lost 2-3 men by that point in many engagements :foreveralone:
1 Mar 2022, 01:17 AM
#7
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 253

use pathfinder. Done
balance as it should be
1 Mar 2022, 01:26 AM
#8
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 253

still, read this.
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2022, 14:28 PMDevM


How and why do you think Ostheer is superior to USF so you rather avoid picking the later in tournament.

It's not that USF is unplayable in tournaments but its more risky, USF NEEDS to either snowball the game or get a good enough advantage so that when they enter the mid to late game stage they can close out the game efficiently thus avoiding having to break the tough OH meta of double MG/Double Pak/Double P4/Vetted LMG grens, which without good indirect fire and with riflemen progressively fairing worse is very hard to beat. Then you compare this to the soviets that can have almost equally impressive early games, a stable mid-game and a late game that equals the OH one and you have got your answer on why players fallback into this pick. On top of all this USF also struggles versus OKW even more, meaning that if you pick USF first its not even garanteed you will get OH on the other side and just to add more fuel to the fire soviets absolutely destroy OKW.

How and why do you think Ostheer is superior to UKF so you rather avoid picking the later in tournament.

UKF has this big problem dealing with the OH sniper and at a top level almost everyone can use the sniper to a good level of proficiency, adding on top of this even if you aren't a sniper player the UKF mid-game still suffers against the current OH meta of double P4 with double Pak just because the P4 is in many situations better than the cromwell especially as they vet up, so not only do you risk straight up losing the game as early as the OH sniper gets out but you also don't have any clear point in which you are better than the OH (assuming he doesn't screw up)

How and why do you think Soviet is superior to OKW so you rather avoid picking the later in tournament.

They can actually sustain the early aggression of OKW and in many cases even win the early game because the sturmpio at a high level and in most maps can get singled out (not doing anything because its a close range unit and the soviet player not letting it get to his most effective range). Not only that but the soviet mid game versus OKW is also very solid with zis-guns/T70/dhsk or maxim which makes it impossible to close out a game efficiently and finally the cherry on top is that soviets absolutely destroy OKW late game, they have answers for everything. Rakketens? Katyusha, vet 5 volks? 7 man cons, MG? Zis-barrage or katyusha, P4 or Panther? double zis-gun and/or SU-85 and/or t34 Ram ability and/or 34-85s which pair up nicely against them. You get the point

15 Mar 2022, 00:15 AM
#9
avatar of Slender

Posts: 3

I was playing USF, build order 2 Riflemen + mortar team, doing the usual smoke and flank on the MG42 team, but i'm struggling because I'm trying to force the MG42 to retreat or kill it, but the defending Grens are able to cut down my riflemen before I can do that. Any tips?



EXTREME FLANKING SPAM




and white phosphorus
9 Apr 2022, 22:07 PM
#10
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 874

You have to go Captain for the M15 HT to overcome OST's infantry superiority. Riflemen don't cut it against Grenadiers and Panzergrens. Yes you read that right. A 240 mp unit with a 60 munition upgrade is effectively superior to a 280 mp unit that pays extra to access grenades and BARs. Horay for balance.
9 Apr 2022, 22:57 PM
#11
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2150 | Subs: 1

11 Apr 2022, 13:08 PM
#12
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 776

Banned
The bane of existence for every decent axis player is the enemy's sniper. There, I let you in on the secret.
12 Apr 2022, 11:18 AM
#13
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 29

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2022, 22:07 PMCODGUY
You have to go Captain for the M15 HT to overcome OST's infantry superiority. Riflemen don't cut it against Grenadiers and Panzergrens. Yes you read that right. A 240 mp unit with a 60 munition upgrade is effectively superior to a 280 mp unit that pays extra to access grenades and BARs. Horay for balance.


Yawn... BAR'd up rifleman do just fine against grens. I know you're convinced that Grenadiers are disgustingly OP but they really aren't that strong prior to being vet 3 with their LMG's. You can quite easily close the gap and overwhelm them in a lot of situations.
12 Apr 2022, 16:38 PM
#14
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1841 | Subs: 1

I was playing USF, build order 2 Riflemen + mortar team, doing the usual smoke and flank on the MG42 team, but i'm struggling because I'm trying to force the MG42 to retreat or kill it, but the defending Grens are able to cut down my riflemen before I can do that. Any tips?


If your micro allows for it consider going 3 Rifles. Personally I feel like the mortar only becomes necessary when they go for a 2nd MG42 (depending on map). Laney maps or maps with choke points that facilitate MG42 camping then mortar can be better. The third rifle just gives you more versatile firepower for overwhelming Grens. For MG42s just practice on sending in Rifles from multiple angles and spreading them out so they don't all get suppressed at once. I also feel like Grenades are underrated - the first grenade usually catches people offguard and can get you an easy wipe if MG42 is bunched on yellow cover. Smoke from officers/REs can also be annoying and at the very least force them to constantly pay attention to the MGs.
12 Apr 2022, 16:45 PM
#15
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 776

Banned
Smoke REs and gg, invest your manpower in another squad.
13 Apr 2022, 01:04 AM
#16
avatar of TehPowahOfWub

Posts: 99



Yawn... BAR'd up rifleman do just fine against grens. I know you're convinced that Grenadiers are disgustingly OP but they really aren't that strong prior to being vet 3 with their LMG's. You can quite easily close the gap and overwhelm them in a lot of situations.


120muni and 280 MP (not counting sidetech timing) to remain competitive with a 240 MP 60 muni squad that comes kitted with immediate snare and free grenade with tech. They are not "distgustingly" OP but they are definitely way too much right now (and likely will remain so).
13 Apr 2022, 07:40 AM
#17
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 29



120muni and 280 MP (not counting sidetech timing) to remain competitive with a 240 MP 60 muni squad that comes kitted with immediate snare and free grenade with tech. They are not "distgustingly" OP but they are definitely way too much right now (and likely will remain so).


I agree with you that in the lategame they are very efficient for their cost, perhaps too much so. But again, they do not just appear out of the gate with all of those advantages you are alluding to. They are a 4 man squad that needs to reach vet three and can easily be overwhelmed at close range. USF definitely has its problems (with the need to snowball the game early) but i think its a bit off to suggest that rifleman simply can't compete as Codguy said earlier in the thread.
13 Apr 2022, 18:03 PM
#18
avatar of TehPowahOfWub

Posts: 99


but i think its a bit off to suggest that rifleman simply can't compete as Codguy said earlier in the thread.


That's exactly what I'm suggesting. Early game they can go against Grens at close-medium range (whereas Grens will win long range). There was a point in time when riflemen could compete at all ranges early game, and Ost had to supplement its superb MG42 to tip the scales, but that required just too much clicking and there were a tremendous amount of axis tears so that advantage has gone. Now grens can compete with riflemen to a degree at all stages (and dominate with support of the MG42) of the game and in the late game simply outclass them pound for pound. The horrible, open map pool in 1v1 and 2v2 does not help either.
17 Apr 2022, 00:58 AM
#19
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 874



Yawn... BAR'd up rifleman do just fine against grens. I know you're convinced that Grenadiers are disgustingly OP but they really aren't that strong prior to being vet 3 with their LMG's. You can quite easily close the gap and overwhelm them in a lot of situations.


LOL yeah after 150 MP 15 fuel and then 120 munitions and that still doesn't give you grenades hahahaha!
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