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Addressing the issue of ELO-hell.

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17 Feb 2022, 03:00 AM
#161
avatar of Rosbone
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 02:53 AMGrumpy
Um, Rosbone's statement is correct. It's an extreme example of Bayes theorem. You're talking about regression towards the mean which is a concept and not an actual theorem.

Oh snap :gimpy:
17 Feb 2022, 04:04 AM
#162
avatar of Elpern

Posts: 78

Wat is this thread
17 Feb 2022, 04:42 AM
#163
avatar of Rosbone
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 04:04 AMElpern
Wat is this thread

You dont want to be here. Hurry! Leave before RuseMaster gets ahold of you!

<---------- Look what he did to me
17 Feb 2022, 05:57 AM
#164
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 567

Coh3 should use elo mm for 1v1, and pure random mm for larger modes, except when premade teams are involved. Then premade should only be matched with premade (using elo), and solos should never be added to any premade match.

It means premade teams get quality opponents without the risk of having to carry a noob random.
And 1v1 players get what they want: matched Vs similar skill opponents.
And solo randoms get to enjoy a diverse mix of games without premade stompers.
And smurf accounts don't get to game the elo system for their own gratification.
17 Feb 2022, 07:12 AM
#165
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 02:53 AMGrumpy


Um, Rosbone's statement is correct. It's an extreme example of Bayes theorem. You're talking about regression towards the mean which is a concept and not an actual theorem.


https://web.pdx.edu/~newsomj/uvclass/ho_outlier%20and%20sample%20size.pdf

Standard error and standard deviation decrease as sample size increases. Rosbone’s insane rumblings about matchmaking fucking him up 10 times in a row and then continuing to do so with a significant effect no matter how many games you play have no basis in reality. If you play 200-300 games, matchmaking quality will regress towards the mean and you will get very similar numbers of good and bad cases of it.


Bayes theorem is irrelevant, I never said if you get 10 bad cases of matchmaking in a row you are more likely to get good matchmaking next time. Learn to read.
17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AM
#166
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2

The levels of delusion in this thread... Maybe you're just not that good at the game? It's only an issue if you make it one by constantly blaming the matchmaking. I can't comment on 4v4 but in 2v2 elo hell is not a thing. Yes, it is tedious to get your rank out of the 4digits but it's reliably doable. Ranks are actually very accurate in 2v2 and 1v1 in my experience (with a few people being over- or underranked because they play during weird hours or do meme strats).

Edit: I also think it's very advisable to stop looking at your rank at all. Just play and try to improve. Literally no one cares about another person's CoH ranks.
17 Feb 2022, 12:03 PM
#167
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1442

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AMGiaA
The levels of delusion in this thread... Maybe you're just not that good at the game? It's only an issue if you make it one by constantly blaming the matchmaking. I can't comment on 4v4 but in 2v2 elo hell is not a thing. Yes, it is tedious to get your rank out of the 4digits but it's reliably doable. Ranks are actually very accurate in 2v2 and 1v1 in my experience (with a few people being over- or underranked because they play during weird hours or do meme strats).

Edit: I also think it's very advisable to stop looking at your rank at all. Just play and try to improve. Literally no one cares about another person's CoH ranks.


+++

and apparently some people just straight up leave if the ranks are unfavorable in their team, so I guess someone cares too much
17 Feb 2022, 12:28 PM
#168
avatar of Rosbone
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AMGiaA
The levels of delusion in this thread... Maybe you're just not that good at the game? It's only an issue if you make it one by constantly blaming the matchmaking. I can't comment on 4v4 but in 2v2 elo hell is not a thing.

Google Translation: I know nothing of this topic, you are all full of shit. I will completely disregard all of the data presented to me to make a snide comment about my superiority.
17 Feb 2022, 12:36 PM
#169
avatar of Rosbone
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and apparently some people just straight up leave if the ranks are unfavorable in their team, so I guess someone cares too much

Why do people play Coh2? Is it to have fun? Or is it to get completely smashed by meme strats against people way better than you because the match making sucks the pubes off a tick on a goats ass?

What is Duffmans goal every day on stream? To get a single good game. Just one out of four hours of playing. And not get stuck with donkeys every game. And he is playing at top 10 levels. Now try it at top 2000 levels.

That is all anyone is asking for here. We paid our money to play the game. We would just like to actually get to play it once in a while.

Do you load up PUBG all day long and get your shit tossed by wall hackers? No? Why not? Because it is not fun? Really?

This whole thread is about fun. Relic is robbing us of that fun. Instead of spouting L2P as the player base continues to decrease, maybe make an account on Relics site and start asking for MM to get fixed. Then everyone gets to have fun. And you are helping the community instead of dividing it even further.

EDIT:
People play COH2 to feel like a General in battle, not feel like an NPC in Leisure Suit Larry.
17 Feb 2022, 12:38 PM
#170
avatar of Rosbone
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Thanks to everyone posting! It has been fun. I have enjoyed it a lot. :wub:
17 Feb 2022, 13:07 PM
#171
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2688 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 12:36 PMRosbone

Why do people play Coh2? Is it to have fun? Or is it to get completely smashed by meme strats against people way better than you because the match making sucks the pubes off a tick on a goats ass?


So now it's suddenly about having fun only? Because if your understanding of fun is "If I win the match I had fun, if I lose then I did not", then GiaA is right. You cannot possibly tell me that you are playing with full rank 5000 teammates against full top 500 allllll the time. Basically most other types of matches in 4v4 are winable if you play good enough, but it feels like some people expect the game to hand them a 3-digit rank and 60% winrate with ease, even when said people openly admit that they are not good at CoH2.


On the other hand if your meaning of fun is to have good, long games then I dont see the issue either. I see a lot of 30+ minute games in your history.
17 Feb 2022, 13:07 PM
#172
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 12:28 PMRosbone

Google Translation: I know nothing of this topic, you are all full of shit. I will completely disregard all of the data presented to me to make a snide comment about my superiority.


1. I know a lot about it because I've played this game a shitload in 1v1 and 2v2. I can pretty accurately estimate people's rank just from playing them with no prior knowledge. 2. Idk why people always ascribe a superiority complex when you call them out on their skill level (which is highly relevant in this thread). I never said anything about myself. I just said that the people in this thread complaining are probably not as good as they think they are. 3. What are the data? Your weird anecdotes about dropping ranks?
MMX
17 Feb 2022, 13:13 PM
#173
avatar of MMX

Posts: 997 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 12:36 PMRosbone

This whole thread is about fun. Relic is robbing us of that fun. Instead of spouting L2P as the player base continues to decrease, maybe make an account on Relics site and start asking for MM to get fixed. Then everyone gets to have fun. And you are helping the community instead of dividing it even further.

EDIT:
People play COH2 to feel like a General in battle, not feel like an NPC in Leisure Suit Larry.


So what's your solution then? I'm genuinely curious. All I read is you throwing shit at relic for supposedly ruining the fun for everyone by not fixing the MM system (for whatever nefarious reason), while not providing any clue of how to fix it.

I mean, I totally get the frustration of getting skewed or unfair matchups, but with the playerbase CoH2 has there's just no way to guarantee an equal skill level on both sides for each and every game. That is, unless you want to spend as much time playing radar simulator as you do now leaving game after game you deem too unfair to play out (which, btw, probably ruins the fun for those left on your team as well in the process).

The whole arranged team vs randoms issue is the only thing where I'd see any reason to complain. This could probably be improved by giving premade teams some sort of seeding handicap against randoms to even out the communication advantage. But other suggestions, such as to split random and arranged team ladders that would only further dilute the player pool just make no sense.

Maybe the most sensible solution would be if all the poor souls trapped in ELO hell with similar skill level group up via chat and play as arranged teams by default. That way you could at least no longer blame MM for your inept and useless team mates, could you?
17 Feb 2022, 18:09 PM
#174
avatar of Rosbone
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Players 7, 8, and 9 have entered the game.
17 Feb 2022, 18:40 PM
#175
avatar of Rosbone
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Lets break the translation down line by line:

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AMGiaA
The levels of delusion in this thread...

Facts and graphs are delusional.

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AMGiaA
Maybe you're just not that good at the game? It's only an issue if you make it one by constantly blaming the matchmaking.

L2P noob. I am way better than you. Git Gud son. Did I miss any of the usual detritus?

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AMGiaA
I can't comment on 4v4

I openly admit I have no idea WTF I am talking about. I did not read or am too dumb to understand all of the previous posts. But you are wrong.


END TRANSLATION

I am not trying to crap on your post. I just found it really funny how you worded it.

You did make a good point in between your post. ELO Hell increases with the number of players. You stated 2v2 does not have this issue from your experience.

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 11:38 AMGiaA
Edit: I also think it's very advisable to stop looking at your rank at all. Just play and try to improve. Literally no one cares about another person's CoH ranks.

If you stop looking at your rank and others, you will play a lot of shit games you have ZERO chance of winning and you will definitely NOT have fun. You will only question the depths of stupidity the human mind can achieve and will probably become a racist. How many games do I have to sit thru hearing "Chinese are retards!!!" being spammed in chat before I become one of these idiots?

It is so weird, I have a lot of free time and I find it totally unacceptable that Relic waste it. Most of you have much less free time and here you sit advocating for Retardic to continue wasting that precious time. That cool aid must taste really good.


17 Feb 2022, 18:50 PM
#176
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

On the other hand if your meaning of fun is to have good, long games then I dont see the issue either. I see a lot of 30+ minute games in your history.

Welcome to the game! I was going to reference your illegal playing on another persons account post when I was talking to GiAA, but I figured that would not be very nice since it could get you banned. Best to let it stay hidden in the text walls above, since you are an important figure in the community and a balance team member. I would not want to tarnish your name since it would weaken the community overall. Now I see it is open game :luvDerp:

As I have stated several times so far in this topic:
- ELO Hell exists for some.
- Currently Soviets are under performing in 4v4.
- The lower in rank you go the more Soviets team mates you get and continue to drop elo.
- Relics match making is the easiest thing to fix for this problem.

See graphs and pictures above that prove these claims.


17 Feb 2022, 18:56 PM
#177
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 18:40 PMRosbone
Lets break the translation down line by line:


Facts and graphs are delusional.


L2P noob. I am way better than you. Git Gud son. Did I miss any of the usual detritus?


I openly admit I have no idea WTF I am talking about. I did not read or am too dumb to understand all of the previous posts. But you are wrong.


END TRANSLATION

I am not trying to crap on your post. I just found it really funny how you worded it.

You did make a good point in between your post. ELO Hell increases with the number of players. You stated 2v2 does not have this issue from your experience.


If you stop looking at your rank and others, you will play a lot of shit games you have ZERO chance of winning and you will definitely NOT have fun. You will only question the depths of stupidity the human mind can achieve and will probably become a racist. How many games do I have to sit thru hearing "Chinese are retards!!!" being spammed in chat before I become one of these idiots?

It is so weird, I have a lot of free time and I find it totally unacceptable that Relic waste it. Most of you have much less free time and here you sit advocating for Retardic to continue wasting that precious time. That cool aid must taste really good.




OP is literally talking about 2v2. Honestly think you should take a step back from the game. I'm not trolling you. Your rants here just seem completely unhealthy.
17 Feb 2022, 19:06 PM
#178
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 13:13 PMMMX
So what's your solution then?

We have had several forum posts about this already.

WHAT I WOULD DO WITH THE CODE:
- Give premades a rank. Do not force them to smash 10 noob teams first.
- Do not make games where players are all ranked much higher than their enemy.
- Do not stick people on the same map they just lost on.
- Do not put people in the same spawns they just played on.
- Do not make matches with the weakest factions only.
- Do not stick the worst player in a match with other members in the next match.

I could go on and on....

Relic could easily do the first two and those are the biggest contributors. I care way more about you guys than Relic does, so I would do more steps.
17 Feb 2022, 19:07 PM
#179
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2688 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2022, 18:50 PMRosbone

Welcome to the game! I was going to reference your illegal playing on another persons account post when I was talking to GiAA, but I figured that would not be very nice since it could get you banned. Best to let it stay hidden in the text walls above, since you are an important figure in the community and a balance team member. I would not want to tarnish your name since it would weaken the community overall. Now I see it is open game :luvDerp:



:loco: Account sharing is not against the Code of Conduct/EULA/TOS or anything else, as long as you're not doing it to evade a ban or to sneak into a tournament or shit like that
17 Feb 2022, 19:09 PM
#180
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

:loco: Account sharing is not against the Code of Conduct/EULA/TOS or anything else, as long as you're not doing it to sneak into a tournament or shit like that

Sweet! So when are you going to hook me up with some tasty ELO?

Did your friend enter any tournaments? Do you have proof? J/K
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