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russian armor

ISU-152 concrete piercing round

12 Dec 2021, 16:37 PM
#41
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13354 | Subs: 1


you are missing the fact that ability needs to land smack dab in the middle of the target to do the full 240 damage, since it is pure AOE damage compared to pen/accuracy rolls for AP round.

Edit: or land a collision hit. But still there is a probability for shot to land "under the target" and deal less then 240 damage.

What you have quoted says that penetration chance has increased by 20% up to 33%.

Do you want to argue that this is not the case?

Else pls do not quote me to say things that are irrelevant to what you are actually quoting.
12 Dec 2021, 19:43 PM
#43
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13354 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2021, 14:32 PMKatitof

If you shoot it at ele, you get shot back for more damage, possibly 2 times.
If you shoot it at JT, you get shot back for more damage, possibly 2 times.

Which means the pen buff is useful exclusively against a single unit in the entire game.
Which makes the nerfs greatly outweight the significance of armor pen right there.

That is a fact, not an opinion.

Facts:
ROF of ele is 8.75
ROF of JT is 8.8

Using the ability allows the ISU-152 to fire 2 shots in around 4 secs
It used to be able bounce now it will always penetrate

12 Dec 2021, 22:48 PM
#44
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128

You created this monster, now live with the consequences. In all seriousness, there's a fine line between making it useful and making it OP, the ISU does not need a 70 range stun shot for example, what Heavy TD would be balanced with that? And turning it into essentially a double tap shot is just the original problem of it erasing squads with extra steps. IMO the least gross option to make it less sad is to simply rework it as a timed ability that let's the ISU's rounds pierce thru shot blockers for like 30 seconds or so, a clone of the JT's ability.
12 Dec 2021, 22:49 PM
#45
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 776 | Subs: 1

what Heavy TD would be balanced with that?


The elefant as it already has a ~75 range stun shot
12 Dec 2021, 22:53 PM
#46
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2021, 22:49 PMKatukov


The elefant as it already has a ~75 range stun shot

Ik, I was just throwing some light shade on the Elefant :D
13 Dec 2021, 01:07 AM
#47
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4142 | Subs: 3

You created this monster, now live with the consequences. In all seriousness, there's a fine line between making it useful and making it OP, the ISU does not need a 70 range stun shot for example, what Heavy TD would be balanced with that? And turning it into essentially a double tap shot is just the original problem of it erasing squads with extra steps. IMO the least gross option to make it less sad is to simply rework it as a timed ability that let's the ISU's rounds pierce thru shot blockers for like 30 seconds or so, a clone of the JT's ability.


I slayed the monster you abooser :nahnah: apparently the AP shell's penetration is 200/230/260. I'd prefer a pen buff ability to manhandle the ele/JT from the front. That, I would gladly pay 60 muni for.
13 Dec 2021, 07:46 AM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13354 | Subs: 1



I slayed the monster you abooser :nahnah: apparently the AP shell's penetration is 200/230/260. I'd prefer a pen buff ability to manhandle the ele/JT from the front. That, I would gladly pay 60 muni for.

And let say that ISU-152 does get such an ability and can now manhandle to Elefants and JTs from the front what would be the options for Ostheer/Okw to deal with ISU-152 then?

Elefant and JT can beat the ISU-152 for good reason.
13 Dec 2021, 08:34 AM
#49
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2021, 07:46 AMVipper

And let say that ISU-152 does get such an ability and can now manhandle to Elefants and JTs from the front what would be the options for Ostheer/Okw to deal with ISU-152 then?

Elefant and JT can beat the ISU-152 for good reason.


Guaranteeing penning on shots doesnt mean the ISU will win, it'll still lose, but there wont be hilarious bounces from a massive shell landing on a Panther and then "dink".

That being said, I think I agree with you, broken clock being right twice and all that. if you got munitions to burn and add vehicle mark on top of it, you can just end the career of any tank of your choice. I would argue its better to keep the ISU's stats constant since lets be honest, its already an absolute monster when its well supported.

I'd rather the ISU get an ability that gives it actually useful utility and not necessarily just a straight stats boost.

But then again, when compared to the other heavy TD abilities like the Elefant's cursed stun shot, or the JT's busted HE barrage on top of their strong base stats, guaranteed piercing rounds wouldn't be completely unreasonable.
13 Dec 2021, 08:49 AM
#50
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 242

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2021, 07:46 AMVipper

And let say that ISU-152 does get such an ability and can now manhandle to Elefants and JTs from the front what would be the options for Ostheer/Okw to deal with ISU-152 then?

Elefant and JT can beat the ISU-152 for good reason.

Panther or multiple p4s. Cmd panther for OKW is good too with marking
13 Dec 2021, 09:24 AM
#51
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 766

JT - fires 5 shots at a distance of 95 with AOE better then one of the KT, costs 40 munies

ISU - fires 1 shot with slightly better AOE at 70 range then the HE shot with increased penetration. Costs 60 munies

ELE - fires a shot that completely stuns the vehicle. Cots 35 munies.

Totally fair
13 Dec 2021, 11:37 AM
#52
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2923 | Subs: 2

I slayed the monster you abooser :nahnah: apparently the AP shell's penetration is 200/230/260. I'd prefer a pen buff ability to manhandle the ele/JT from the front. That, I would gladly pay 60 muni for.

Elefant is probably the strongest and most specialized AT unit in the game. JT is supposed to be similar, for some odd reason it gets the AI barrage. The ISU however is fairly AI specialized, it shouldn't be able to really contest the Elefant.

But overall I agree. 60 mun for the current ability is not really worth it.
13 Dec 2021, 12:00 PM
#53
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17623 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2021, 07:46 AMVipper

And let say that ISU-152 does get such an ability and can now manhandle to Elefants and JTs from the front what would be the options for Ostheer/Okw to deal with ISU-152 then?

Elefant and JT can beat the ISU-152 for good reason.

You'll answer yourself this question, when you sit for a moment and contemplate on how allies counter ele and JT.
13 Dec 2021, 12:09 PM
#54
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13354 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2021, 12:00 PMKatitof

You'll answer yourself this question, when you sit for a moment and contemplate on how allies counter ele and JT.

Are you claiming that ISU-152 should beat JT/ELE in slugfest?

If your answer is yes read post #52
If your answer is no I suggest you move on
13 Dec 2021, 13:15 PM
#56
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1190


Panther or multiple p4s. Cmd panther for OKW is good too with marking


I really cannot understand this sometimes.

Many people claim that it is better to buy 2 Panthers instead of a [super]heavy tank like Jagd, Ele or similar in order to counter enemy [super]heavy tanks.

I really don't get this. I'm not trying to troll, I ask in complete sincerity.

Why would you choose another Panther (or SU-85 if SOV) when you can call in Tiger/Ele and ISU? Sure, many top tier players advocate for that because I would assume they have god like micro and yes for them it's better to roll 2 dice for a hit chance rather than one. Other than that niche group, is there any reason not to save up for superheavy tank when enemy already has one?

13 Dec 2021, 13:49 PM
#57
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2923 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2021, 12:00 PMKatitof

You'll answer yourself this question, when you sit for a moment and contemplate on how allies counter ele and JT.

That's quite nonsense.
If the ISU had great AT, even via a timed ability, you remove one of he few weak points it has.
13 Dec 2021, 14:02 PM
#58
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 776 | Subs: 1


That's quite nonsense.
If the ISU had great AT, even via a timed ability, you remove one of he few weak points it has.


and they decided to add an anti-team weapon ability to a tank with 450 armor, guaranteed pen and extreme damage on each and every tank that it fires at in the game


do they care about that point anyway?
13 Dec 2021, 14:37 PM
#59
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 242



I really cannot understand this sometimes.

Many people claim that it is better to buy 2 Panthers instead of a [super]heavy tank like Jagd, Ele or similar in order to counter enemy [super]heavy tanks.

I really don't get this. I'm not trying to troll, I ask in complete sincerity.

Why would you choose another Panther (or SU-85 if SOV) when you can call in Tiger/Ele and ISU? Sure, many top tier players advocate for that because I would assume they have god like micro and yes for them it's better to roll 2 dice for a hit chance rather than one. Other than that niche group, is there any reason not to save up for superheavy tank when enemy already has one?


Superheavies are doctrinal, panthers/su85s are not

Tbh i have no clue what ur talking about. I gave options for countering ISU specifically. Didnt say anything was better in general

13 Dec 2021, 14:47 PM
#60
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1190


Superheavies are doctrinal, panthers/su85s are not



Ok, didn't really think of that tbh since I got all the commanders and I 99% use those that have a superheavy call-in.

As for the other part, yes I am aware that my question was an entirely different one.

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