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russian armor

When Relic call that an anti-tank gun

30 Oct 2021, 10:12 AM
#1
30 Oct 2021, 10:41 AM
#2
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1254

The general rule is that you do not build AT guns as USF in 3v3 or 4v4. Muni dump and unreliable against anything with more than 230 armour. Instead you get double pak howi or some sort of modular anti-infanty, sacrifice bars in favor of double zooks on echelons and major (and if you have rangers, on them as well). You get a much more mobile AT department whose downsides are: potential bleed and range, but other than that, much stronger than double AT guns. 6 pounder and ZiS are amazing when doubled in 3v3+, but 57mm, not so much. King Tiger has 375 frontal armour and AT gun has 130 far penetration (35% chance of pen). You will not land 8 penetrating hits on a KT to kill it.

The moment I stopped playing AT guns as USF, was the moment I started to actually win my VP lane and win games, especially if you know how to use zook blob of death as an ambush against diving tanks (which happens vs OKW the most as OKW players usually feel safe vs USF in 230+ armour tanks)
30 Oct 2021, 11:00 AM
#3
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

A superheavy tank that is meant to frontally defeat ATGs actually frontally defeats ATGs.
Color me surprised.
30 Oct 2021, 11:30 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

Teeechnically, relic calls it a field gun, because it was a field gun and not an anti tank gun, ZiS-2 was an ATG.
30 Oct 2021, 11:47 AM
#5
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 709

Single AT was never enough to fend off a KT, otherwise KT would be trash tier with its sloth tier mobility
30 Oct 2021, 13:02 PM
#6
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1254

Single AT was never enough to fend off a KT, otherwise KT would be trash tier with its sloth tier mobility


Completely true, although on maps like the Pineapple Hamburger port, it's not so bad. I mean, how can you flank anything on that map with vehicles? It's no surprise that the OP went for the ATGs given how USF ATGs have wide arc and that's good on such a super mega lane-y map with lots of impassable terrain. It's amazing how one tank can be Godlike on one map (redball, hamburger) and downright trash on other (Steppes).
30 Oct 2021, 13:11 PM
#7
avatar of Shuter_FR

Posts: 25

Single AT was never enough to fend off a KT, otherwise KT would be trash tier with its sloth tier mobility


I had 2 anti-gun in the video, one left side and another right side

This unit need ability long view and penetration shell to do something
30 Oct 2021, 14:22 PM
#8
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 797

You need M36 to counter KT not 270MP AT guns. And even then I’ve lost a KT to M1s. That said, never ever try to slug it out with the biggest bruiser in the game without a heavy numbers advantage.

Now here’s some even more incredible RNG AT for you:

30 Oct 2021, 15:22 PM
#9
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 709



I had 2 anti-gun in the video, one left side and another right side

This unit need ability long view and penetration shell to do something

Sorry, was watching video on the phone, didn't notice the other one, but still without ability it would pen only once per 3 shots. But with it m1 57mm will perform the best compared to other AT guns.



Completely true, although on maps like the Pineapple Hamburger port, it's not so bad. I mean, how can you flank anything on that map with vehicles? It's no surprise that the OP went for the ATGs given how USF ATGs have wide arc and that's good on such a super mega lane-y map with lots of impassable terrain. It's amazing how one tank can be Godlike on one map (redball, hamburger) and downright trash on other (Steppes).

For me m36 is a must almost on any map, especially facing a heavy tank like KT.
31 Oct 2021, 00:21 AM
#10
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 122

Against panthers and up, you gotta use its sabot round ability to reliably pen. When you pop that, it becomes genuinely scary, and easily the best of the AT guns. but if you're hurting for muni, Jacksons all the way. Or both, both also works.
31 Oct 2021, 03:18 AM
#11
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 323

You need M36 to counter KT not 270MP AT guns. And even then I’ve lost a KT to M1s. That said, never ever try to slug it out with the biggest bruiser in the game without a heavy numbers advantage.

Now here’s some even more incredible RNG AT for you:



That was painful to watch
31 Oct 2021, 07:29 AM
#12
avatar of Shuter_FR

Posts: 25

Amazing video...
What a cheated free unit, I think this is the best Heavy tank, don't need commader to deploy

That's fair !!
And during this time my pershing is dreaming to have same stats...
31 Oct 2021, 07:58 AM
#13
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2601 | Subs: 2

Amazing video...
What a cheated free unit, I think this is the best Heavy tank, don't need commader to deploy

That's fair !!
And during this time my pershing is dreaming to have same stats...

It's no secret that the USF ATG has shitty pen, yet you use it frontally against the heaviest vehicle in the game. Not sure what you expected, but getting 8/9 bounces in this scenario is not even really rare.

Unless you want to complain about USF's AT design in general.



Slightly off topic: it just came to my mind that the high target size in this regard might come to the KTs advantage. ATGs have 100% natural hit chance, which in the games logic means you will always score frontal shots unless you are more than 90° behind the tank. More imprecise shots might scatter and hit the huge model in the rear
31 Oct 2021, 14:15 PM
#14
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 709

Amazing video...
What a cheated free unit, I think this is the best Heavy tank, don't need commader to deploy

That's fair !!
And during this time my pershing is dreaming to have same stats...

If you ever played Texas Holden Poker, you must know that if you all-in on Blind with double Aces, you can still lose. You can also have 5 heads in a row, when flipping a coin. But does the AA combination bad, because you lost with it one time? Do heads drop more then tails, just because you had instance of flipping heads 5 times in a row and never touching the coin after?
COH2 is built on odds and if you are gonna build your perception of units based on some rare outlying occasion, you will always undervalue your units and overvalue opponent's.
31 Oct 2021, 21:12 PM
#15
avatar of Partisanship

Posts: 260

This is bait, right?
Someone cannot unironically post this and genuinely think it's a good argument.
1 Nov 2021, 00:05 AM
#16
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2773

They should make it like COH1 that bouncing shot should at least having some damage. Miss and bouncing shot is so frustrating.
1 Nov 2021, 08:40 AM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12588 | Subs: 1

They should make it like COH1 that bouncing shot should at least having some damage.

Are you suggesting that hordes of Luch, T-70... should be able to take out IS-2,ISU-152KT,Ele,...



Miss and bouncing shot is so frustrating.
Why are missed shot acceptable for small arms fire/artillery/ballistic and not in vehicle to vehicle combat?

The game is based has RNG element so that one has to adapt to situation instead of a predetermine outcome and that add to the game.
1 Nov 2021, 13:43 PM
#18
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 840 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2021, 08:40 AMVipper

Are you suggesting that hordes of Luch, T-70... should be able to take out IS-2,ISU-152KT,Ele,...


vCoH deflection shots dealt 50% damage, even if we imagine that every single T70 shot would have been deflection, with its 40 maingun damage deflection would have delt 15 damage.

How big this horde must be to take out litteraly anything, even to make a difference and deal 160 damage you need 11 shots.
1 Nov 2021, 13:59 PM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12588 | Subs: 1



vCoH deflection shots dealt 50% damage, even if we imagine that every single T70 shot would have been deflection, with its 40 maingun damage deflection would have delt 15 damage.

How big this horde must be to take out litteraly anything, even to make a difference and deal 160 damage you need 11 shots.

0.5 x 40 = 20 not 15.

How much time do you think that 4 T-70 need to fire 8 rounds?

Point here is that deflection damage promotes spamming vehicles while making Super heavies unable to cope. Already 3 SU-76 can take out an Elephant without any deflection damage, try to imagine what would happen if deflection damage was added.

Both the accuracy mechanisms and armor mechanism are good mechanisms that add dept to combat. People who do not like them should probably stick to AOE or other titles that do not have RNG elements.
1 Nov 2021, 14:03 PM
#20
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 130

vCoH was also a balance travesty, I'm personally of the opinion that the less they take from it, the better. I want deflection damage back as much as I want purchased veterancy and the old point capture system back (I don't, to be clear).
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