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russian armor

What was old CoH2 infantry combat like?

3 Oct 2021, 19:46 PM
#21
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

Infantry play used to be useless after 5 mins or LV's started rlling out, thankfully COH2 infantry play is really viable at all stages


I was reading some old posts about tanks too. 80 damage on the t34's main gun? That sounds like absolute ass. And apparently ram immobilized and destroyed the main guns of both vehicles? Sounds like such a shitshow. :lolol:
Vaz
3 Oct 2021, 23:16 PM
#22
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158


Hmm, isn't body armor is sort of a bonus rec. acc. for small arms like rifles and smgs? The higher the pen, the more chance to pen the target. That's why you get higher DPS towards shocks from HMGs and LMGs then from kar98Ks and G43s.

It is very similar to armor penetration and target size. First you need to land a hit, which is (acc.* target size)*100%, then, if you land a hit, penetration chance is calculated (penetration/Armor)*100%. So if the chance to hit is 90% and chance to pen is 60% you get a combined chance to deal damage of 54%.

I think removing armor was a good thing, because it made game less complicated. The damage reduction, which Grens have (and heavy sappers??) is another story. But again, I started playing in 2019, when all that jazz was long gone.


The complex calculations of this game are exactly why anyone would be playing it. It's the biggest thing that seperates coh from every other RTS that has ever existed, at least that I know of.
Vaz
3 Oct 2021, 23:18 PM
#23
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158



I was reading some old posts about tanks too. 80 damage on the t34's main gun? That sounds like absolute ass. And apparently ram immobilized and destroyed the main guns of both vehicles? Sounds like such a shitshow. :lolol:


I don't remember it destroying both parts of german tank, I think it was one or the other, but yea there were a lot of complaints about ram being very unfair.
13 Oct 2021, 02:28 AM
#24
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 157

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2021, 23:18 PMVaz


I don't remember it destroying both parts of german tank, I think it was one or the other, but yea there were a lot of complaints about ram being very unfair.


oh it does. the ram is a guaranteed immobilization for both vehicles, and a 25% chance main gun destroyed for the axis vehicles.

also SU85 is the best lategame armor, even panther shells would bounce off SU85 front armor
13 Oct 2021, 04:06 AM
#25
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 76



I was reading some old posts about tanks too. 80 damage on the t34's main gun? That sounds like absolute ass. And apparently ram immobilized and destroyed the main guns of both vehicles? Sounds like such a shitshow. :lolol:


All tanks did less damage/had more hp, its pretty silly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iDBnBXSRj4&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=5
13 Oct 2021, 13:30 PM
#26
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 04:06 AMGGnore


All tanks did less damage/had more hp, its pretty silly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iDBnBXSRj4&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=5


Holy shit, it's like they're shooting hard boiled eggs at eachother xDD
13 Oct 2021, 17:12 PM
#27
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 76



Holy shit, it's like they're shooting hard boiled eggs at eachother xDD


conversely heres a elefant taking 70% of a isu152's health in one hit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0bfOZqkErk&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=1

Then theres a elefant bouncing off a su85's front armour at close range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipjwhW4dadk&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=2

This game has changed drastically so many times, read the early patch notes for panthers with king tiger health and 60 range @ 150 fuel, t70's that could crush infantry and isu152's with the same armour as t34's
13 Oct 2021, 17:18 PM
#28
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 17:12 PMGGnore


conversely heres a elefant taking 70% of a isu152's health in one hit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0bfOZqkErk&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=1

Then theres a elefant bouncing off a su85's front armour at close range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipjwhW4dadk&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=2

This game has changed drastically so many times, read the early patch notes for panthers with king tiger health and 60 range @ 150 fuel, t70's that could crush infantry and isu152's with the same armour as t34's


This is absolutely marvelous. The fact that an SU85 took a shot from the Elephant and ended up with the roughly the same level of health as the ISU did... Did the elephant do percent damage or something?? Or were the ISU and SU85 really just that close in health?

This is really boggling my mind at this point.

It's like a fever dream where nothing makes sense.
13 Oct 2021, 17:32 PM
#29
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 76



This is absolutely marvelous. The fact that an SU85 took a shot from the Elephant and ended up with the roughly the same level of health as the ISU did... Did the elephant do percent damage or something?? Or were the ISU and SU85 really just that close in health?

This is really boggling my mind at this point.

It's like a fever dream where nothing makes sense.


Im not sure I guess the balance team were trying out a lot of things early on so you saw wild swings in balance whereas now they make small changes comparatively, according to the changelog the elefants damage hasnt been more than 320 and isu's health lower than 960 but it clearly took more than 500 hp in that hit.
13 Oct 2021, 17:51 PM
#30
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

Jagdtiger had 150 range and could pierce every shotblocker to the targeted tank
13 Oct 2021, 18:14 PM
#31
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 17:32 PMGGnore


Im not sure I guess the balance team were trying out a lot of things early on so you saw wild swings in balance whereas now they make small changes comparatively, according to the changelog the elefants damage hasnt been more than 320 and isu's health lower than 960 but it clearly took more than 500 hp in that hit.


320 hp in one shot... 2 shots of damage, and considering that if most tanks did 80 damage with the main gun... the elephant did 4 shots worth of damage... Could you imagine??
13 Oct 2021, 18:24 PM
#32
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 04:06 AMGGnore


All tanks did less damage/had more hp, its pretty silly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iDBnBXSRj4&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=5


jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 17:12 PMGGnore


conversely heres a elefant taking 70% of a isu152's health in one hit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0bfOZqkErk&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=1

Then theres a elefant bouncing off a su85's front armour at close range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipjwhW4dadk&list=PLFWa7lAuxXdje-vaDzr7eTrf54xgB9HcL&index=2

This game has changed drastically so many times, read the early patch notes for panthers with king tiger health and 60 range @ 150 fuel, t70's that could crush infantry and isu152's with the same armour as t34's


the old coh2 had its charm. i guess the OG relic dev team wanted more vehicle focus especially late games.

tank battles dominated. infantry phase was short.

of course those videos look terrible for competitve screenings. But i do hope to see more armor bounces and status damages on dying hits.

makes sense when you are down to last 2 shot of health, your engine gets damage. maybe something like this can combine with abandoned more playable
13 Oct 2021, 19:15 PM
#33
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 76

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 18:24 PMmrgame2




the old coh2 had its charm. i guess the OG relic dev team wanted more vehicle focus especially late games.

tank battles dominated. infantry phase was short.

of course those videos look terrible for competitve screenings. But i do hope to see more armor bounces and status damages on dying hits.

makes sense when you are down to last 2 shot of health, your engine gets damage. maybe something like this can combine with abandoned more playable


If youve played the original coh before opposing fronts when we got marder/firefly king/jadt tiger all tanks had the same firing range.

It was like a boxing match with multiple shermans/m10's and pershings with auto repair active during the fight vs 2 tigers with pre bought veterency and numerous grenadiers/storms with double shrecks, those were the golden days of coh days to me.

There was also a 5% unkillable bug too where a tank could take 2-4 more penetrating hits on 5% health, o the rage!
13 Oct 2021, 19:42 PM
#34
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

Jagdtiger had 150 range and could pierce every shotblocker to the targeted tank


There's no way. You're exaggerating, right?
14 Oct 2021, 01:17 AM
#35
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658



There's no way. You're exaggerating, right?



ISU, Elephant, and Jag could snipe you from like 3 screens away.
14 Oct 2021, 03:12 AM
#36
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295




ISU, Elephant, and Jag could snipe you from like 3 screens away.


How did they think that made sense in any possible universe. I can't even begin to imagine what the thought process was besides release busted unit and sell it for monetary gain.
14 Oct 2021, 06:35 AM
#37
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 76



How did they think that made sense in any possible universe. I can't even begin to imagine what the thought process was besides release busted unit and sell it for monetary gain.


Everyones off-maps were crazy op
14 Oct 2021, 18:07 PM
#38
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658



How did they think that made sense in any possible universe. I can't even begin to imagine what the thought process was besides release busted unit and sell it for monetary gain.


They had to make money selling DLC so they often released DLC that had some broken things in it. They then tried to diversify Commanders to change playstyles and many players who didn't have these commanders felt the game was pay to win though honestly the best commanders in the game were the stock ones, nevertheless rather than reflect upon their own skill they blamed the Commanders and they stopped producing new commanders/content for the game.

Some ideas I did like that could have worked if they were implemented into the base faction. Such as Whermacht having the ability to purchase veterancy on units from the Elite Troops Commander (Tiger Ace).

One of the things that annoys me the most about COH2 is how everyone has the same veterancy system except for OKW. In COH1 every faction had unique vet, even if they were similar there was uniqueness/flavor added with each faction.

For example COH 1 Brits had really strong infantry but they could only go Vet1/Vet2 based on the officers they had. So you focus the officers and the infantry blob became significantly weaker.

Would have been nice if COH2 had unique veterancy. Early on it seemed like that might have been planned but scrapped since the early patches Whermacht gained increased veterancy based on damage, while Soviets gained more Veterancy from taking damage. So Conscripts for example were able to vet up quicker the more you used them as meat shields and were less reliant on kills.

Somewhere along the way that got changed.
14 Oct 2021, 19:24 PM
#39
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Back in the day tank damage was based on the veterancy. You can play one of the ToW missions, I belive its some sort of the winter airfield mission or something which for still has mentioned system.

For instance, Vet 0 tanks used to deal joke of the damage, while vet 3 units used to be super tanky and 2\3 shot vet 0 vehicles.

Point being when coh2 was released it was out of hand competly. If you had vet 3 PIV\T34 you could have engage and win fights against like 3 vet 0 mediums.
14 Oct 2021, 23:04 PM
#40
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2



Interesting, I don't recall any of this and I have been around since the beginning of CoH2. What I do remember was the infantry weapons did not have profiles so distance didn't mean much. It was a messy and a disappointing launch.
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