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Should We Increase Mortar damage modifier to MG?

22 Sep 2021, 08:09 AM
#1
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

Mortar should be a hard counter to MG spam but currently It's not. (especially USF vs MG42 spam)
Mortar are relying on RNG and its power is not enough to push MG back before you lost whole territory.
22 Sep 2021, 10:04 AM
#2
22 Sep 2021, 10:28 AM
#3
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 353

Smoke from the mortar counters MGs pretty hard. It basically disables the MG and forces it to relocate or to eat a grenade and get flanked. Both options suck while you get the use of your mortar for an offensive role after its done throwing out smoke.

For the price/performance, there is no better tool to deal with MGs
22 Sep 2021, 14:57 PM
#4
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

Smoke from the mortar counters MGs pretty hard. It basically disables the MG and forces it to relocate or to eat a grenade and get flanked. Both options suck while you get the use of your mortar for an offensive role after its done throwing out smoke.

For the price/performance, there is no better tool to deal with MGs


Smoke might not work if enemy use cqc unit combo with MG.
Like asGren + mg42 or multple MG.

Pip
22 Sep 2021, 15:41 PM
#5
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1585

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2021, 14:57 PMvgfgff


Smoke might not work if enemy use cqc unit combo with MG.
Like asGren + mg42 or multple MG.



Smoke still totally disables the MG, regardless of whether or not Assgrens are in there too. If they've got a squad of assgrens in the smoke alongside the MG, you're winning even harder: since two squads are uselessly doing nothing.
22 Sep 2021, 17:11 PM
#7
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 766

any mortar buff may lead to very annoying games. The unit is highly spammable and is still a viable tactic in team games, especially with OST.
An alternative route is an another HMG nerf, but the issue with it, is that you can't nerf blobs.
Vaz
22 Sep 2021, 17:43 PM
#8
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1146

I get what you're saying, yea trying to hit an mg with explosive rounds is slow and a lot of players can avoid it. Smoke works though. You have to do it right, but it works. There is nothing an mg can do in a smoky environment. It literally becomes useless. If it backs up, you can just smoke it again. It becomes quite the micro burden.
22 Sep 2021, 17:49 PM
#9
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17619 | Subs: 9

Or you could move mortar closer, so it actually accurately hits its mark.
22 Sep 2021, 19:04 PM
#10
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

Like others have said smoke doesn't rely on RNG. It's effective as long as you place it right

Now that its actually pretty responsive there's no excuse not to use it
22 Sep 2021, 20:30 PM
#11
avatar of Partisanship

Posts: 260

Mortars are quite potent as they are, especially when the barrage is utilized constantly. Giving them an even greater potential to influence combat would not just affect MG, but typical engagements as well. The smoke that mortars bear is already a great tool to counter MG crews. Increasing the HE shells in any way would just cause collateral balance issues as any engagement in their sphere of influence would be threatened (as far as I know, you can't make mortars specifically hurt MGs in some way).
22 Sep 2021, 20:48 PM
#12
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1499

Mortars are brutal in teamgames. Every OST player I've played against goes 2x mortar after MG42 and one gren. Brutally effective with the lane-y map design where one MG42 can lock out a lot of territory
23 Sep 2021, 13:11 PM
#13
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2021, 15:41 PMPip


Smoke still totally disables the MG, regardless of whether or not Assgrens are in there too. If they've got a squad of assgrens in the smoke alongside the MG, you're winning even harder: since two squads are uselessly doing nothing.


No . just soft retreat and set it behind smoke = you done.
Don't forgot about when you're in smoke you can't shoot so your unit will vulnerable to CQC unit.
I really have issue when my opposite use assgren + mg42 spam in 1vs1.

Another is this will need multiple unit. once you franking MG. your opposite will go capture another.

That why I've mention about "Its power is not enough to push MG back before you lost whole territory"
Pip
23 Sep 2021, 13:25 PM
#14
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1585

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2021, 13:11 PMvgfgff


No . just soft retreat and set it behind smoke = you done.
Don't forgot about when you're in smoke you can't shoot so your unit will vulnerable to CQC unit.
I really have issue when my opposite use assgren + mg42 spam in 1vs1.

Another is this will need multiple unit. once you franking MG. your opposite will go capture another.

That why I've mention about "Its power is not enough to push MG back before you lost whole territory"


But, again, if it's forced to repack and go behind the smoke it still isnt doing anything useful, and now it's in a worse position when the smoke dissipates.

The goal isnt necessarily to force the MG back to base/kill it. If you can achieve your goals while the MG isnt doing anything useful then that is a win. While the MG is smoked you are able to set your troops in advantageous positions, and to capture territory that it might otherwise have been protecting.

Even just in a straight fight, smoking the enemy MG immediately takes it out of the equation, letting you defeat his remaining forces. If the MG hangs around after that, you've got it outnumbered and outmanoeuvred.

After dropping the smoke your Mortar is able to immediately start contributing damage to the remainder of the fight, so you're up an unit over your opponent regardless.
23 Sep 2021, 17:01 PM
#15
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 766

I think the better solution is just to buff mortar/light howitzer smoke in some way. But I have 0 idea if it is even possible, since it seems to me that the duration and smoke radius is the same across all abilities and units.
23 Sep 2021, 18:07 PM
#16
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2021, 13:25 PMPip


But, again, if it's forced to repack and go behind the smoke it still isnt doing anything useful, and now it's in a worse position when the smoke dissipates.

The goal isnt necessarily to force the MG back to base/kill it. If you can achieve your goals while the MG isnt doing anything useful then that is a win. While the MG is smoked you are able to set your troops in advantageous positions, and to capture territory that it might otherwise have been protecting.

Even just in a straight fight, smoking the enemy MG immediately takes it out of the equation, letting you defeat his remaining forces. If the MG hangs around after that, you've got it outnumbered and outmanoeuvred.

After dropping the smoke your Mortar is able to immediately start contributing damage to the remainder of the fight, so you're up an unit over your opponent regardless.


MG isnt doing anything useful but it will not acheive my goal that is recapture territory not just make enemy MG move to other point.

Many time when I use smoke(at rank > 200) My opposite just push their assgren in the smoke and wait for smoke end(or sometime hold the point too) with MG set behind. finally it is me who got forced to retreat.

Mortar smoking is not effective like use smoke form infantry while franking.

Finally It will lead to if I want to Counter 1 Mg, I need 1x mortar with atleast 1x infantry and for more effective I need 45 ammunition for grenade therefore this 60% of this trick will not work since enemy can just go capture another or flanking you back.

That why I said It not effective like other hard counter.
such as blobbing vs rocket truck , tank vs antitank. or light vehicle vs infantry which didn't have snare.
23 Sep 2021, 18:21 PM
#17
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 590

Had a random thought. What about giving mortar shell something similar to the concussive grenade to mimic shell shock. Say a stun of 1 sec, nothing to extraordinary but would scare blobs/mg into repositioning.
23 Sep 2021, 19:57 PM
#18
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 219

shell shock concept sounds like a good idea, but perhaps it should be added to normal fire mode, and direct hit stuns the infantry
23 Sep 2021, 22:55 PM
#19
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

The leIG already does that. Instead of a stun, it forces units to go prone messing with cover and firing cycles.

Suppression on indirect was tried and it made the game REALLY stale.
Vaz
23 Sep 2021, 23:22 PM
#20
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1146

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2021, 18:07 PMvgfgff


MG isnt doing anything useful but it will not acheive my goal that is recapture territory not just make enemy MG move to other point.

Many time when I use smoke(at rank > 200) My opposite just push their assgren in the smoke and wait for smoke end(or sometime hold the point too) with MG set behind. finally it is me who got forced to retreat.

Mortar smoking is not effective like use smoke form infantry while franking.

Finally It will lead to if I want to Counter 1 Mg, I need 1x mortar with atleast 1x infantry and for more effective I need 45 ammunition for grenade therefore this 60% of this trick will not work since enemy can just go capture another or flanking you back.

That why I said It not effective like other hard counter.
such as blobbing vs rocket truck , tank vs antitank. or light vehicle vs infantry which didn't have snare.


You can fight in smoke with grenades and force firing some weapons. You have options. You can take territory.
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