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Why is the Pak 43 allowed to shoot through obstacles?

15 Sep 2021, 12:07 PM
#21
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

I think the Pak43 is fine even with the wall hax and the true problem is the lack of main line rocket arty of allies or abilities for allies to indirectly counter it since it can sit behind buildings.
15 Sep 2021, 12:46 PM
#22
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1198

On some maps, Pak43 is downright OP (angermunde, hill400...) if you don't have the doctrinal tools to take it down. On angremunde, buildings block almost all non vertical indirects, even when destroyed and on Hill400 it can shoot through multiple layers of ground/obstacles/tree-lines. On other, wider and more open maps, it's completely useless. Mostly it's a problem of lacking stock units that can take it out. For the 17pdr, OKW has the flame stuka which will kill it even when braced I think (tightrope showed it if I'm not mistaken), and OST has the werfer which will either kill it or severely damage it if the brace is activated before the volley (let's be honest, nobody is going to activate brace for werfer, you'll be busy moving your units).

One also has to take into consideration the following:
17pdr is a building, and as such has a large area that when damaged, will destroy the building and the gun. Pak43 is a big ass gun that can be decrewed. So shooting at a pak43 with... let's say pak howi barrage, you may or may not decrew it, depending on the scatter luck. Shooting at a 17pdr with a ISG: Every barraging shell will damage it and once it's gone, the whole gun is gone.

I think this is one aspect to take into consideration. For pak43 you need pinpoint accuracy, but no brace and can be decrewed, for 17pdr you don't need any of that, but brace is there to help out (which means engies will be on repair duty).

I'd make both 17pdr and pak43 pretty much identical in survivabiltiy/firepower and remove the wallhack completely.
For uniqueness, you can add abilities or w/e to those guns. Pak43 could have piercing shot, 17pdr could have HE shot or whatever.
15 Sep 2021, 14:27 PM
#23
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 01:52 AMMMX
so the op's complaint is that someone used the pak43's ability to shoot through world objects to... let it do exactly that and, hence, use it more effectively? or that allowing your opponent to cache up their entire section of the map without using the mp difference to your advantage will eventually backfire?


We won the game pretty easily, but that doesn't help the "comeback potential" these caches give Axis a lot of the time. You have to play Allies to understand.
15 Sep 2021, 14:29 PM
#24
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37



THank you, so OP is a Allies only player in teamgames and has 6 Wehrmacht games in total.


maybe OP should post a replay. One of which he probably left his pershing or churchill right in front of its DESIGNATED counter


I don't play Axis because I barely have to micro. It's legit boring.
15 Sep 2021, 14:34 PM
#25
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37



THank you, so OP is a Allies only player in teamgames and has 6 Wehrmacht games in total.


maybe OP should post a replay. One of which he probably left his pershing or churchill right in front of its DESIGNATED counter


Also don't have a replay from that specific game cuz the game deletes it for the most recent game, which is me playing Ostheer and completely and easily holding one side of the map.
Pip
15 Sep 2021, 14:42 PM
#26
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1557



We won the game pretty easily, but that doesn't help the "comeback potential" these caches give Axis a lot of the time. You have to play Allies to understand.


You do realise there's nothing stopping you building Caches too, right? OKW can't even build them.

They don't give unique "comeback potential" to Axis.
15 Sep 2021, 15:35 PM
#27
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 812 | Subs: 1


I don't play Axis because I barely have to micro. It's legit boring.


While its true that Axis requare less micro, especially in teamgames, your opinion will always be 100% biased if you mostly play one side.

I mean, you can be openminded and not a fanboy, but you still will be biased.

On a topic:
Pak43 is no different to any unit which requre commander solution to killed, like:
1) You play against Howis without picking com with offmap+recon, you will have a bad time.
2) You are playing against Axis heavy spam, without strong AT offmaps, you will have a bad time.
3) You are playing against Allies TD spam without Pak43\Ele\JT, you will have a bad time.

PaK43 is strong, but you have to anticipate based on map and commanders enemy have that you might have to fight it in this game.

Also if you dont like facing it that much, just veto maps where its super strong in 3v3\4v4 there are few maps where PaK43 is indeed super strong, on most of them its manageable.
15 Sep 2021, 17:21 PM
#28
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 541



I don't play Axis because I barely have to micro. It's legit boring.


Ridiculous.
15 Sep 2021, 18:09 PM
#29
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 17:21 PMKoRneY


Ridiculous.


It is, all my units are crazy powerful and versatile, you legit have shock infantry at the start as OKW. They all barely bleed, and I always have a surplus after mid game that lets me replenish any losses I may have had.
15 Sep 2021, 18:14 PM
#30
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37



While its true that Axis requare less micro, especially in teamgames, your opinion will always be 100% biased if you mostly play one side.

I mean, you can be openminded and not a fanboy, but you still will be biased.

On a topic:
Pak43 is no different to any unit which requre commander solution to killed, like:
1) You play against Howis without picking com with offmap+recon, you will have a bad time.
2) You are playing against Axis heavy spam, without strong AT offmaps, you will have a bad time.
3) You are playing against Allies TD spam without Pak43\Ele\JT, you will have a bad time.

PaK43 is strong, but you have to anticipate based on map and commanders enemy have that you might have to fight it in this game.

Also if you dont like facing it that much, just veto maps where its super strong in 3v3\4v4 there are few maps where PaK43 is indeed super strong, on most of them its manageable.


1) That's a different topic, this has nothing to do with the pak 43 and its no clip shells.
2) I didn't have a hard time, I killed the crew on it immediately at the end of the game, that doesn't excuse it.
3) Panther spam, what? Or just like, Pgren spam that completely nullifies the Ally TDs, you have so many options man. It should not be able to shoot through buildings and obstacles, why is this an argument. At least it should lose shit tons of dmg and pen if it does.
15 Sep 2021, 18:24 PM
#31
avatar of AHandyDandyHotDog

Posts: 37

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 14:42 PMPip


You do realise there's nothing stopping you building Caches too, right? OKW can't even build them.

They don't give unique "comeback potential" to Axis.


You legit do not have the MP left to make caches as Sov, unless you give up massive amount of map control, lol. Even then, they're Pgren will go behind the lines and insta destroy it before it does much. Can't as easily destroy Axis caches as Sovs, you need penals which are shit at team games because you need AT guns. They do give Axis "unique "comeback potential"", allied tanks are nowhere near as good as stock Axis tanks. So if you kill every Axis unit early-mid, they just spam pioneers and P4s/ Panthers that easily stabilize them.

Nobody should be able to make caches, they're terrible game design.
Vaz
15 Sep 2021, 19:50 PM
#32
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1139

Do you have to attack ground with the pak43 or does it just auto attack through the world? It kind of sounds like it's just auto attacking through the world. It would explain how I've been nailed through buildings and hills a few times.

Funny thing, I tried using the scott barrage on a pak43 from max distance. You guys aren't going to believe this, but that anti-tank gun nailed my artillery unit at max range! Must be rng or l2p, because artillery is supposed to hard counter an atgun, we all know that.

Axis have little trouble taking out 17lb too. I've watched the standard response, which works great. OKW just uses 2 leig. Ost uses mortar and/or pwerfer. A few times I've even seen ost use a flammenht with good micro. The british emplacements were already nerfed quite a bit, since we all had ptsd from coh1 nightmare sim city games.
15 Sep 2021, 19:55 PM
#33
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 334

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 19:50 PMVaz
Do you have to attack ground with the pak43 or does it just auto attack through the world? It kind of sounds like it's just auto attacking through the world. It would explain how I've been nailed through buildings and hills a few times.

Funny thing, I tried using the scott barrage on a pak43 from max distance. You guys aren't going to believe this, but that anti-tank gun nailed my artillery unit at max range! Must be rng or l2p, because artillery is supposed to hard counter an atgun, we all know that.

Axis have little trouble taking out 17lb too. I've watched the standard response, which works great. OKW just uses 2 leig. Ost uses mortar and/or pwerfer. A few times I've even seen ost use a flammenht with good micro. The british emplacements were already nerfed quite a bit, since we all had ptsd from coh1 nightmare sim city games.


the pak-43 auto attacks through the world, if there is a tank in the arc of fire, it will hit it regardless of how much terrain separates them. I think that the M8 just falls into the arc.
15 Sep 2021, 20:25 PM
#34
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



I don't play Axis because I barely have to micro. It's legit boring.

Does that come from your 2000 2v2 rank experience?
15 Sep 2021, 22:45 PM
#35
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 541



It is, all my units are crazy powerful and versatile, you legit have shock infantry at the start as OKW. They all barely bleed, and I always have a surplus after mid game that lets me replenish any losses I may have had.


You haven't played okw in at least a month and you've lost way more games than you've won with ostheer.

If it were so easy I'd guess you would actually have decent stats but you don't.
15 Sep 2021, 22:50 PM
#36
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 541

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 19:50 PMVaz
snip


At rounds can scatter across the map (very rarely). I've had a pwerfer get popped from way past 60 range. It wasn't even the target 😂

I've had a pak hit a katy in a similar manner, ground attacking something else and scattering through a hedgerow.
16 Sep 2021, 00:22 AM
#37
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1198

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 22:50 PMKoRneY


At rounds can scatter across the map (very rarely). I've had a pwerfer get popped from way past 60 range. It wasn't even the target 😂

I've had a pak hit a katy in a similar manner, ground attacking something else and scattering through a hedgerow.


You don't even need to rely on scatter shots. Both 17pdr and pak43 have 80 range, which is enough
16 Sep 2021, 03:30 AM
#38
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 812 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2021, 22:45 PMKoRneY


You haven't played okw in at least a month and you've lost way more games than you've won with ostheer.

If it were so easy I'd guess you would actually have decent stats but you don't.


Axis is easy, I didnt play as them because they are easy, lost most games with them because I never played as them and dont know how to play as them, but they are easy, if I actually knew how to play as them I would have been rank 20 because of how easy they are. :bananadance:
Vaz
16 Sep 2021, 05:01 AM
#39
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1139

Well, that's a little strange to say. You do have to play a few rounds before you get players that will actually challenge you. I have the same opinion, but I've played axis games and they were a snooze fest, especially team games. I had several games where I literally did nothing and my teamates all bezerked out 3v4 and succeeded. When faced with strong adversity my teamates will hang in there as axis. As allies, they quit quick. Talking about randoms here. If allies was easy, I'd play axis, like I did in coh1. I like the challenge.
16 Sep 2021, 05:04 AM
#40
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3250 | Subs: 1


It is, all my units are crazy powerful and versatile, you legit have shock infantry at the start as OKW. They all barely bleed, and I always have a surplus after mid game that lets me replenish any losses I may have had.

That's because you're playing so little as axis that you're not climbing the ranks. Play against good allied players, you'll learn real quick about how much you're exaggerating here
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