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Should SU76 have 160 damage vet3?

11 Sep 2021, 20:53 PM
#21
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2021, 15:07 PMPip


"Only" lets it have the damage of the ZiS (Or The P4, Cromwell, Sherman, SU-85, Jackson, etc). 160 damage is an important breakpoint as you well know. Not really sure why you're trying to downplay it.



The Stug gets better mobility because it has lower range. That's the tradeoff.

The SU-76 gets scaling through an improved barrage range and cooldown, alongside better accuracy/reload. (and ultimately better penetration values than the STUG).

reaching veterancy 3 with most units is a long process, you are only getting the 160 damage at veterancy 3, which requires a lot of care from the SOV player to get to there in the first place. stop downplaying the fact that its a VET 3 buff, on a fragile unit that has weak stats to start off with.

the tradeoff makes no sense seeing as the su-76 is ENTIRELY mobility reliant to survive

the "scaling" on the su-76 is entirely redundant because you're getting better barrage AND better AT with the zis-3, and you also skip out on the T-70 that can go against LVs, getting it later on is entirely pointless because of the su-85, but thats okay.

the stug scales way better for the virtue of it's good AT stats and mobility in a rather cheap package, the lack of AI is irrelevant because you got two AI tanks that do an excellent job and the lack of range is because it could probably 1v1 su-85s with 60 range, the reload speed is definitely not slower than that of the su-76 and the accuracy is good enough. it is a really underappreciated tank by the community, but I digress.


i don't know why you're adamant about the damage, it isn't a vet 0 dmg buff, but a vet 3 one, which promotes unit preservation on a fragile unit
11 Sep 2021, 21:18 PM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2021, 20:53 PMKatukov

...
the "scaling" on the su-76 is entirely redundant because you're getting better barrage AND better AT with the zis-3, and you also skip out on the T-70 that can go against LVs, getting it later on is entirely pointless because of the su-85, but thats okay.
...

Su-76 has better barrage than zis, more range and extra damage with vet.
11 Sep 2021, 22:36 PM
#23
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2021, 21:18 PMVipper

Su-76 has better barrage than zis, more range and extra damage with vet.


the barrage range on the normal zis is more than enough already

the extra "damage" is nice but the barrage is used as a dislocate tool vs team weapon, the damage barrage boost isn't even intentional iirc
11 Sep 2021, 22:40 PM
#24
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I think it should get 160 damage at vet 3 OR an upgrade option at t4 that requires fuel and gives it a bump of health as well. Maks it's barrage a separate weapon type so that damage changes don't effect the wipe potential (this should have happened a long time ago anyways) It scales really quite poorly; it's squishy and a casemate, it also lacks escape smoke (remember all the wailing about the Scott being tooo squishy despite having a crew, smoke AND a turret?)

The damage should be brought up if only because 140 damage is a stupid number and all of the game scales on 40 base for vehicles above ultra lite.
12 Sep 2021, 00:09 AM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2021, 22:36 PMKatukov


the barrage range on the normal zis is more than enough already

the extra "damage" is nice but the barrage is used as a dislocate tool vs team weapon, the damage barrage boost isn't even intentional iirc

But you do agree that Su-76 has better barrage than zis, contrary to what you have posted originally.
12 Sep 2021, 00:39 AM
#26
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 00:09 AMVipper

But you do agree that Su-76 has better barrage than zis, contrary to what you have posted originally.


I see absolutely no difference between the zis barrage and the su-76 barrage asides from maybe the firing speed, but if you say that its better...
12 Sep 2021, 04:30 AM
#27
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


They both have 160 damage at default.
Yeah but your point was the most expensive light TD. Yet the stug3 and m10 cost more. So you are wrong.
12 Sep 2021, 04:52 AM
#28
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

Yeah but your point was the most expensive light TD. Yet the stug3 and m10 cost more. So you are wrong.


You know that those arent light td's right?
12 Sep 2021, 05:41 AM
#29
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

Yeah but your point was the most expensive light TD. Yet the stug3 and m10 cost more. So you are wrong.

If must say...M10 and Stug3 need medium tank tech.....for balance it coming later so have 160 damage is fine,but look su76,as light TD,is coming later than OKW puma,and cost more,for now even it vet 3 it not have 160 damage so it useless in late game.
For those TD like M10 and Stug3 in late game they default 160 damage also could punch most medium tank,but don't forgot Allied without commander and UKF Comet and Churchill not have tank HP more than 640,so Allied should have more powerful TD against German heavy,but still that problem,SU76 not have enough damage to use even in VET3,even vet3 it can not beat new Stug3.
12 Sep 2021, 08:10 AM
#30
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1


If must say...M10 and Stug3 need medium tank tech.....for balance it coming later so have 160 damage is fine,but look su76,as light TD,is coming later than OKW puma,and cost more,for now even it vet 3 it not have 160 damage so it useless in late game.
For those TD like M10 and Stug3 in late game they default 160 damage also could punch most medium tank,but don't forgot Allied without commander and UKF Comet and Churchill not have tank HP more than 640,so Allied should have more powerful TD against German heavy,but still that problem,SU76 not have enough damage to use even in VET3,even vet3 it can not beat new Stug3.

Increasing damage to 160 would not change anything in SU-76 vs Stug.

Su-76 already need 4 shot to kill a Stug once vetted.
12 Sep 2021, 08:27 AM
#31
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 08:10 AMVipper

Increasing damage to 160 would not change anything in SU-76 vs Stug.

Su-76 already need 4 shot to kill a Stug once vetted.

SU76 not only against Stug,all player know 160 damage is very important for TD against medium tank.
Pip
12 Sep 2021, 16:49 PM
#32
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580


If must say...M10 and Stug3 need medium tank tech.....for balance it coming later so have 160 damage is fine,but look su76,as light TD,is coming later than OKW puma,and cost more,for now even it vet 3 it not have 160 damage so it useless in late game.
For those TD like M10 and Stug3 in late game they default 160 damage also could punch most medium tank,but don't forgot Allied without commander and UKF Comet and Churchill not have tank HP more than 640,so Allied should have more powerful TD against German heavy,but still that problem,SU76 not have enough damage to use even in VET3,even vet3 it can not beat new Stug3.


The SU-76 has a dual-purpose as both a light AT vehicle and as an AI vehicle through barrage. That's how it scales.

It outranges and outpenetrates both the M10 and Puma as well. People talking about the damage as though that is the only component of AT performance are being kinda dishonest at best.

The SU-76 struggles because it simply doesn't have a place in the SOV arsenal, nor in the timing that it arrives. I've said before that it would be much better off being made a "pure" AI vehicle, like the STUG-E or even the Scott rather than bothering to try and make it's AT performance better. If you want lategame AT vehicles as SOV you get an SU-85.

Also: Are you seriously using the Stug against allied heavies?
12 Sep 2021, 20:26 PM
#33
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 16:49 PMPip


The SU-76 has a dual-purpose as both a light AT vehicle and as an AI vehicle through barrage. That's how it scales.

It outranges and outpenetrates both the M10 and Puma as well. People talking about the damage as though that is the only component of AT performance are being kinda dishonest at best.

The SU-76 struggles because it simply doesn't have a place in the SOV arsenal, nor in the timing that it arrives. I've said before that it would be much better off being made a "pure" AI vehicle, like the STUG-E or even the Scott rather than bothering to try and make it's AT performance better. If you want lategame AT vehicles as SOV you get an SU-85.

Also: Are you seriously using the Stug against allied heavies?

Allied without commander or UKF top tech not have heavy tank even not have tank HP high than 640,and Panther is default unit for German.

And not say how SU76 OP,just tell me what last time you use this.
12 Sep 2021, 21:10 PM
#34
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



You know that those arent light td's right?

They are light TD. Since they are not in the same class as su85s, Firefly's, Jacksons or Jagd Panzers.
And Puma and AEC aren't TD. They are AT LV. You can't seriously be saying that su76 is a vehicle of a class of which it is the only member???
12 Sep 2021, 21:15 PM
#35
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716


They are light TD. Since they are not in the same class as su85s, Firefly's, Jacksons or Jagd Panzers.
And Puma and AEC aren't TD. They are AT LV. You can't seriously be saying that su76 is a vehicle of a class of which it is the only member???

If only see they have or not have higher unit,they are light right,but look HP and damage and tech request.
12 Sep 2021, 22:01 PM
#36
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285


They are light TD. Since they are not in the same class as su85s, Firefly's, Jacksons or Jagd Panzers.
And Puma and AEC aren't TD. They are AT LV. You can't seriously be saying that su76 is a vehicle of a class of which it is the only member???


Yes it is its own class. Their is no other unit like it, no other unit has such a shit timing window and doesnt scale meaningfully.

Unlike the su76 both the m10 and stug tank 4 at rounds, both do the 160 damage. Both have a powerfull round/abilitie to fullfil its primary job.
Pip
12 Sep 2021, 23:33 PM
#37
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580


Allied without commander or UKF top tech not have heavy tank even not have tank HP high than 640,and Panther is default unit for German.


How do Axis get Panthers without "Top Teching"?
13 Sep 2021, 00:00 AM
#38
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 760



Yes it is its own class. Their is no other unit like it, no other unit has such a shit timing window and doesnt scale meaningfully.

Unlike the su76 both the m10 and stug tank 4 at rounds, both do the 160 damage. Both have a powerfull round/abilitie to fullfil its primary job.


i disagree, 2 su76 perform way better against medium tanks then 1 su85. And people to often look to damage and not the firing speed of these units. Then combine that with the barrage ,speed and fotm bonus and i find this unit to be a most cost-effective medium tank hunter
13 Sep 2021, 00:02 AM
#39
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 23:33 PMPip


How do Axis get Panthers without "Top Teching"?

Some factions have something or not have or hard to use is factions problem.Factions have but you not use is your problem.
13 Sep 2021, 00:07 AM
#40
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 16:49 PMPip


The SU-76 has a dual-purpose as both a light AT vehicle and as an AI vehicle through barrage. That's how it scales.


no it doesnt fucking scale lol


nobody in this fucking forum uses these things unless they fuck up and need a p4 deterrent, or are going penals to t3 without backtech


What sort of fucking scaling does it have? a barrage that your 0 fuel AT gun has, and boasts basically an equal health durability with superior AT stats to boat.


80% of su-76's will not reach vet 3 and those that do should be rewarded for it, losing one, which is really fucking easy btw, means that you'll never deal with a """""160""""" damage SU-76 for the rest of that particular game
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