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russian armor

Soviet AT Over Watch is too strong.

10 Sep 2021, 19:56 PM
#101
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


zero arty offmap gives much longer time for landing first shell and has much smaller circle. yo your argue is pretty much useless.

No this comparison is useless. Zeroing also targets infantry/support weapons, which can possibly die to a single lucky shell

Tanks move faster and don't get deleted as quickly
10 Sep 2021, 20:04 PM
#102
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2242


No this comparison is useless. Zeroing also targets infantry/support weapons, which can possibly die to a single lucky shell

Tanks move faster and don't get deleted as quickly


infnatery is way better to secure vs zero arty since it needs much longer to land first shell and u only need to click one single button for your whole inf army. thats not that easy with tanks, since the circle is much bigger, and yout can end on most maps in a traffic jam. hello VP flag
11 Sep 2021, 03:19 AM
#103
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1



infnatery is way better to secure vs zero arty since it needs much longer to land first shell and u only need to click one single button for your whole inf army. thats not that easy with tanks, since the circle is much bigger, and yout can end on most maps in a traffic jam. hello VP flag

Hey I've already said AT overwatch is silly. But I think all auto-target abilities are dumb

And guess what if it's forcing you to retreat your "entire inf army"? That's a pretty solid win for the user. And the point is the potential damage from the first shells


11 Sep 2021, 22:32 PM
#104
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



zero arty offmap gives much longer time for landing first shell and has much smaller circle. yo your argue is pretty much useless.

Please learn the various differences between infantry and team weapon vs vehicles. Things like mobility for example. You can test this yourself at home! Open up a custom game and give orders to any vehicle and any infantry to go to a point. See which one gets there faster! It's a test so simple even you might be able to pull it off after a few tries.
11 Sep 2021, 22:50 PM
#105
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 262

This ability is massively more powerful than skillplanes.
It drops more crap, they arrive in a constant barrage, it arrives faster it deals far more damage overall than P47 Rockets, Stuka CAS or Typhoon Rockets, and I believe it's cheaper as well. And unlike skillplanes, you cannot counter it with a unit (AA).
But Axis OP so maybe it should be buffed.
11 Sep 2021, 23:03 PM
#106
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 242


Please learn the various differences between infantry and team weapon vs vehicles. Things like mobility for example. You can test this yourself at home! Open up a custom game and give orders to any vehicle and any infantry to go to a point. See which one gets there faster! It's a test so simple even you might be able to pull it off after a few tries.

LMAO dont count on it. Based on his ideas this seems above his capacity
12 Sep 2021, 01:32 AM
#107
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 958

If I'm not mistaken, your concern with ATO is that supporting the retreating heavy tank(s) with other armours to deny vision from enemy dive is not viable, since ATO is likely to drop equally deadly hits to all the armours in the circle resulting you to lost all the tanks.

If this is your concern then I have a tip that hopefully can help you: ATO's total hits are limited and mostly evenly distributed to all valid targets inside the visible area within the ability casting area. Retreating all the armours but the super heavy on the frontline is exactly the most suboptimal strategy to counter ATO since it will result all the ATO hits concentrated on one tank. If you support your front row tanks with your full army like againsting any other normal allies dive, help separating the ATO hits from the super heavies, denying sight by taking out the diving force, the ATO is not going to deal much damage to all your tanks at all.


The total damage done to multiple units is also incredibly high, if you leave multiple in the area. It can easily drop a vet 3 panther, vet 3 Brummbar and Elephant to half HP (or less) all at the same time.

Additionally, since it's a dive, you're also contending with the enemy tanks - not just the ATO. As a result, leaving the vehicles in the area to spread out the damage will mean that most of your tanks will be left at half HP or less, making it easy for the attacking force to destroy all of them. The only 'viable' option is to retreat everything at the same time, so that you leave the circle and the damage is spread out, and the time within it is minimized. However, due to the layout of many of the 3v3 and 4v4 maps, as well as the size of the circle, this isn't always possible.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2021, 12:23 PMKatukov

you are making things up to justify your trash narrative, ATO doesn't fall down instantly and you're going to decimate the enemy dive if you have supporting forces. When you kill the enemy forces ATO wont fire at you anymore.

your scenario is an allies outplay the way you describe it, maybe that should be telling us something


The delay on ATO is around 4.5 seconds, from click to the first shell; less when you consider the flares drop after the click. By comparison, the soviet 'PTAB' anti-tank run, which had it's delay increased because it was overpowered, now arrives after 8.5 seconds. The similar JU-87 close air support ability (which also needs LOS and costs 200 muni) arrives after 14 seconds on a typical map. It seems to me that ATO starts far too early, especially considering these abilities all cost about the same.

12 Sep 2021, 12:20 PM
#108
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



The total damage done to multiple units is also incredibly high, if you leave multiple in the area. It can easily drop a vet 3 panther, vet 3 Brummbar and Elephant to half HP (or less) all at the same time.

Additionally, since it's a dive, you're also contending with the enemy tanks - not just the ATO. As a result, leaving the vehicles in the area to spread out the damage will mean that most of your tanks will be left at half HP or less, making it easy for the attacking force to destroy all of them. The only 'viable' option is to retreat everything at the same time, so that you leave the circle and the damage is spread out, and the time within it is minimized. However, due to the layout of many of the 3v3 and 4v4 maps, as well as the size of the circle, this isn't always possible.



The delay on ATO is around 4.5 seconds, from click to the first shell; less when you consider the flares drop after the click. By comparison, the soviet 'PTAB' anti-tank run, which had it's delay increased because it was overpowered, now arrives after 8.5 seconds. The similar JU-87 close air support ability (which also needs LOS and costs 200 muni) arrives after 14 seconds on a typical map. It seems to me that ATO starts far too early, especially considering these abilities all cost about the same.



Wrong ATO is not deal damage to all unit in circle in same time in just target 1 unit and switching.
barrage also not multiply by unit in area like zeroing.
that mean.
how many unit how less its effective.
consider again with this test video.

12 Sep 2021, 14:02 PM
#109
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 262

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Sep 2021, 14:27 PMAradan
Check mach stats. Axis still distinctly dominate team games. And between most picket commanders is no one with this abillity.
All thread is build on feelings (mostly axis only players).
RintFosk and vgfgff in tests proved, that is not a problem leave circle (even ramed JT).


Stats in automatch for randoms gives garbage data on balance, all you can do is judge what types level of skill tends to pick which faction more.

You have to look at data for balanced matches at high level play.
Let's do that:

Last 1v1 tourney had Allies winning 100% in the final.
Currently Allies are winning at 90% in the 4v4 tourney.

Does that tell you anything? I'm sure it wont.
12 Sep 2021, 16:03 PM
#110
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13354 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 14:02 PMReverb


Stats in automatch for randoms gives garbage data on balance, all you can do is judge what types level of skill tends to pick which faction more.

You have to look at data for balanced matches at high level play.
Let's do that:

Last 1v1 tourney had Allies winning 100% in the final.
Currently Allies are winning at 90% in the 4v4 tourney.


Does that tell you anything? I'm sure it wont.

Is that accurate or are you exaggerating?

It would really funny if allies doing that good after the patch and the number of thread about how bad USF are kept increasing.
12 Sep 2021, 16:22 PM
#111
avatar of 1st. Fallschirmjäger

Posts: 67

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 16:03 PMVipper

Is that accurate or are you exaggerating?

It would really funny if allies doing that good after the patch and the number of thread about how bad USF are kept increasing.


The 1vs1 is true,don`t know about the 4vs4 tourney(would apreciate a link to it,big fan of casted matches).
12 Sep 2021, 18:04 PM
#112
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 262



The 1vs1 is true,don`t know about the 4vs4 tourney(would apreciate a link to it,big fan of casted matches).


In the Inka tourney I watched all 11 matches this weekend and it was 10 wins for Allies, 1 for Axis.
The previous round had 4 Axis wins if I recall and the rest Allies.
12 Sep 2021, 18:14 PM
#113
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 643

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 16:03 PMVipper

Is that accurate or are you exaggerating?

It would really funny if allies doing that good after the patch and the number of thread about how bad USF are kept increasing.


It's true.

When I pointed out the finals I got a pretty quick axis 5-0 in semis from A_E and Whiteflash said "people see what they want to see".

Personally I felt that the games were super close/razor's edge and could have gone either way. It could've easily been 4-3 axis or allies.

Regardless. I didn't want to see one side get swept, regardless of faction.
12 Sep 2021, 19:32 PM
#114
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 958

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2021, 12:20 PMvgfgff
Wrong ATO is not deal damage to all unit in circle in same time in just target 1 unit and switching.
barrage also not multiply by unit in area like zeroing.
that mean.
how many unit how less its effective.
consider again with this test video.


Yes, I'm aware of how ATO works; however, even with it targeting a single unit at a time, the total damage done to all of the units in the circle is still very high. If you replace those 5 panthers with 1x Vet 3 Panther, 1x Vet 3 Brummbar, and a vet 0 Elephant, as I described in my post, after the barrage all 3 will be well below half HP. That's a significant amount of damage dealt, especially since it starts less than 5 seconds after the smoke appears.
12 Sep 2021, 21:46 PM
#115
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



Yes, I'm aware of how ATO works; however, even with it targeting a single unit at a time, the total damage done to all of the units in the circle is still very high. If you replace those 5 panthers with 1x Vet 3 Panther, 1x Vet 3 Brummbar, and a vet 0 Elephant, as I described in my post, after the barrage all 3 will be well below half HP. That's a significant amount of damage dealt, especially since it starts less than 5 seconds after the smoke appears.


Yes if tank is static or get snare ATO will done its job but if tank are on moving It missed a lot.
Another things is This Skill need to RE-TARGETTING if you lost vision on enemy tank with include 50/50 shell will bounce off.
12 Sep 2021, 23:28 PM
#116
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 776 | Subs: 1



Yes, I'm aware of how ATO works; however, even with it targeting a single unit at a time, the total damage done to all of the units in the circle is still very high. If you replace those 5 panthers with 1x Vet 3 Panther, 1x Vet 3 Brummbar, and a vet 0 Elephant, as I described in my post, after the barrage all 3 will be well below half HP. That's a significant amount of damage dealt, especially since it starts less than 5 seconds after the smoke appears.



Just get out of the barrage bro...



U got a vet 3 panther lol you're intentionally sitting in ATO to prove a point in the forums how ATO counters tanks XDDDD
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