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russian armor

Soviet AT Over Watch is too strong.

6 Sep 2021, 07:01 AM
#41
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 991

Doc tool versus heavy tanks and TD, dependent on visibility and oponent poor reaction.
Next nerf will be for Zeroing, Sector assault and Close the pocket?

Move from red circle and support yours tanks. Heavy are not one unit army.
6 Sep 2021, 07:56 AM
#42
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3249 | Subs: 1



Zeroing dont auto aim on units, zeroing has friendly fire, zeroing takes like 5+ seconds charning up before it actually start being devastating.

Zeroing is just another artillery ability, which works like any other artillery based ability except it needs constant vision.

Abilities are closest to overwatch - all plane based abilities, but unlike auto-aiming planes AT overwatch cant be countered by AA and it cant be doudged.

Ummm what are you talking about? Zeroing arty absolutely tracks and targets units. You're correct about the delay, but it absolutely auto-aims, and it most certainly does not work other artillery abilities

The description literally says: "Automatically attacks visible enemy units in the target area. Artillery rate of fire ramps up the longer the target is visible"

To be clear I think zeroing is relatively balanced compared to AT overwatch, but that's just because ATO is faster. Zeroing is the same ability its just slower and it attacks everything instead of only vehicles
6 Sep 2021, 08:56 AM
#43
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 808 | Subs: 1


Ummm what are you talking about? Zeroing arty absolutely tracks and targets units. You're correct about the delay, but it absolutely auto-aims, and it most certainly does not work other artillery abilities

The description literally says: "Automatically attacks visible enemy units in the target area. Artillery rate of fire ramps up the longer the target is visible"

To be clear I think zeroing is relatively balanced compared to AT overwatch, but that's just because ATO is faster. Zeroing is the same ability its just slower and it attacks everything instead of only vehicles


It tracks the enemy, not really auto-aims on the units. For instance its still possible to reatreat from zerroing circle (at least untill it fully rumps up) since it wont always hit directly into the center of the unit. Its just very chaotic and fast so it look like it always auto-aims.

AT overwatch on the other hand never misses the target, it auto-locks on it and hits in the center of the model.

In any case, over-all chances of dying to Zeroing is pretty much the same as to most arty abilities if you stay for the whole direction in the bombardment zone.
6 Sep 2021, 10:00 AM
#44
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

Its OP as told.

solution would be: make circle smaller. Now the circle is to huge for most maps, where it can take over half of maps.

and a troll can even drop it behind ur tanks easily and there is no way out from now.

axis taktic vs allie BS units (like mobile arty plattforms) is to dive in or lose game. and now u click one single button and kill all tanks.
'
allies have enough option to counter axis LEFH, without any dive in
6 Sep 2021, 10:26 AM
#45
avatar of RintFosk

Posts: 52



You also usually have conscripts of something that can snare, as well as other abilities to like flares or overflight to maintain vision.


I would appretiate you a lot if you could read my reply about how much effort and risk players need to take in order to make this ability effective.

The ability is hardly effective versus established axis armoured forces supported with proper infantry support and AA vehicle. It is only useful punishing overextended targets, optimally following after snares.

When using it in actual game it is hard to keep vision on the axis tank, since recon overflight would get shot down, flares requires mortar or sniper to be pushed into very risky position in order to be fired, infantry barely catches up the reversing not-snared tanks and often get killed by axis infantry


This ability can be countered by denying vision, there are many ways to do it:

- AA vehicle to deny scout loiter
- Supporting team weapon and infantry to delay/deny enemy units dive
- Keeping pressure at frontline to deter enemy flare launching unit
- Smoke from mortar or doctrinal abilities such as Panzer Tactician or stuka smoke drop

When this ability works it usually being effective in helping secure a kill from combined arm push or punishing unsupported over-extending heavy tanks, OP claimed that this ability by its own could demolish any heavy tank without additional effort, I just want to prove that this statement is not true.
6 Sep 2021, 10:48 AM
#46
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241



I would appretiate you a lot if you could read my reply about how much effort and risk players need to take in order to make this ability effective.



This ability can be countered by denying vision, there are many ways to do it:

- AA vehicle to deny scout loiter
- Supporting team weapon and infantry to delay/deny enemy units dive
- Keeping pressure at frontline to deter enemy flare launching unit
- Smoke from mortar or doctrinal abilities such as Panzer Tactician or stuka smoke drop



Only a noob cant handle to click one button and be sure to have view to the enemy tanks. which is pretty easy by a ton of options. and wasting a cons is really worth. no skill need here.
6 Sep 2021, 11:28 AM
#47
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



It tracks the enemy, not really auto-aims on the units. For instance its still possible to reatreat from zerroing circle (at least untill it fully rumps up) since it wont always hit directly into the center of the unit. Its just very chaotic and fast so it look like it always auto-aims.

AT overwatch on the other hand never misses the target, it auto-locks on it and hits in the center of the model.

In any case, over-all chances of dying to Zeroing is pretty much the same as to most arty abilities if you stay for the whole direction in the bombardment zone.


Nope. AT overwatch misses a lot if target is on move. both have delay.
6 Sep 2021, 11:34 AM
#48
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

Its OP as told.

solution would be: make circle smaller. Now the circle is to huge for most maps, where it can take over half of maps.

and a troll can even drop it behind ur tanks easily and there is no way out from now.

axis taktic vs allie BS units (like mobile arty plattforms) is to dive in or lose game. and now u click one single button and kill all tanks.
'
allies have enough option to counter axis LEFH, without any dive in



According to your playercard. You only experienced only 9 game with soviet.
I suggest you to try AT OVERWATCH by yourself. in my experience It totally waste of ammo it misses a lot when enemy tank are on move.and you can't continue tracking enemy tank without lose your unit.
6 Sep 2021, 11:44 AM
#49
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

Why you guy think it OP?
It didn't even kill panther even panther is not moving and always have full vision on it.





A lot of shot was bourced off.
A lot of shot was misses.
6 Sep 2021, 11:56 AM
#50
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 307

nonsense, only if your tank is immobile will it die to the AT ovewatch.

if i remember correctly you can also smoke your tank to make the overwatch stop (thus tank smoke cannisters).
6 Sep 2021, 12:48 PM
#51
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 280



Soooo zeroing is broken too then and un-counterable by your own measures? Neat.


You seem to be confused. No thats not what i said. Moving out of the effective range of a ability has nothing to do with the strength of the ability itself, thats why i brought up OP stuff in the past that someone could just avoid by moving their units.
Avoiding abilities by moving units is not a counter, never was, never will be

6 Sep 2021, 12:48 PM
#52
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2021, 11:44 AMvgfgff
Why you guy think it OP?
It didn't even kill panther even panther is not moving and always have full vision on it.

A lot of shot was bourced off.
A lot of shot was misses.




its ok, when you dont understand the mechanic of the ability.

let me explain: you decided to test it with 5 tanks. Since the ability has a counter on the shells, it will try to hit all targets mixed.

what u should try: take only 2-3 tanks and see them dying easily.
6 Sep 2021, 12:50 PM
#53
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2021, 11:34 AMvgfgff



According to your playercard. You only experienced only 9 game with soviet.
I suggest you to try AT OVERWATCH by yourself. in my experience It totally waste of ammo it misses a lot when enemy tank are on move.and you can't continue tracking enemy tank without lose your unit.


its not my fault, when u cant read simple infos. i have maybe 9 sov in 1v1. but over 70 in other modes. enough for u?
6 Sep 2021, 14:04 PM
#54
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268



It doesn’t matter if it’s patched out. The same principle still applies. It’s not higher science to make a Ram work. Just as easy as before except now you need to use exactly 3 braincells to make it function.


How many brain cells are required to lay mines near the longest ranged vehicle in the game?
6 Sep 2021, 14:33 PM
#55
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



its ok, when you dont understand the mechanic of the ability.

let me explain: you decided to test it with 5 tanks. Since the ability has a counter on the shells, it will try to hit all targets mixed.

what u should try: take only 2-3 tanks and see them dying easily.


Did you see It misses even tank are static? guess how it will miss if tank are on moving?
and yes that is by bait.
What a point of zoning artiliry that can only kill 1 target by that ONE TARGET need to be static and always visible? 180 ammu?
while zeroing aimming all target.
6 Sep 2021, 14:34 PM
#56
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



its not my fault, when u cant read simple infos. i have maybe 9 sov in 1v1. but over 70 in other modes. enough for u?


player card doesn't matter if you understand what you talking about. but clearly you don't.
6 Sep 2021, 14:56 PM
#57
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



You seem to be confused. No thats not what i said. Moving out of the effective range of a ability has nothing to do with the strength of the ability itself, thats why i brought up OP stuff in the past that someone could just avoid by moving their units.
Avoiding abilities by moving units is not a counter, never was, never will be



ืany off map artilily didn't have counter. you can just avoid it.
6 Sep 2021, 15:04 PM
#58
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1191

Imagine thinking AT overwatch is OP. A normal circle which targets vehicles if there is sight of them and costs a lot. Imagine thinking it's OP. Imagine thinking that if you waste 300+ MP, 90 fuel (if you're going for a ram) and 200+ muni, you should not get a guaranteed kill over a sighted slowed heavy vehicle. So many wehraboos here or just plain noobs. I'm sorry but this discussion has no merit to it.
6 Sep 2021, 15:24 PM
#59
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 280

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2021, 14:56 PMvgfgff


ืany off map artilily didn't have counter. you can just avoid it.


so? does that have anything to do with the power level of the ability?
6 Sep 2021, 15:55 PM
#60
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2538 | Subs: 2

I also think that this ability is very, very good. A small nerf is in order for me. When supporting an attack it is just so efficient in finishing tanks that have already been hit 1-2 times. Even in a failed attack it allows you to secure a kill or two, especially if your opponent needs to micro his infantry as well.
When playing with friends in 2v2 and 3v3 as Allies, one of us almost always picks it, and I rarely saw it as a mistake.

Anecdotal:
I also remember playing against a 3v3 team that always comboed AT overwatch, USF's P47 loiter and the (pre nerf) UKF early warning flares across the whole frontline. It was a huge investment, but it basically always deleted a couple of tanks and forced us to abandon the front line almost completely.
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