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russian armor

Soviet AT Over Watch is too strong.

5 Sep 2021, 03:57 AM
#1
avatar of Shimizu

Posts: 9

I have been seeing AT over watch commanders more often recently and so I have been encountering the AT over watch ability more frequently. It is insanely powerful, the first time I encountered it I was astonished by how much damage it does to even the heaviest of vehicles. First off it is very cheap for what it does, it costs the same as Stuka close air, but it can target all the tanks in the circle and obviously it cannot be shot down like Stukas can, so there is no counter to it. I know that vision is required to maintain fire, but vision can be had with overflight, flairs or you can even sacrifice a couple infantry squads for the cause to maintain vision. Secondly and what I think is most egregious is how fast the ramp up time is. It shoots faster and faster so quickly that something like an Elefant has no chance to escape, and if you're tanks are close together and the map is narrow then you can say goodbye to several of your tanks as they try to path find their way away. Even if you manage to escape the barrage without losing anything all your tanks will be so weak that the inevitable tank push that fallows will kill whatever survived. I'm not saying that AT Over Watch is an "I win button" but when used properly it can shred any German tank force and leave you extremely vulnerable very late in the game.
I think there are a few things that could be done to try and balance this ability. An obvious solution would be to just increase the price. I don't think this would solve the problem though, Even if it was 300 muni I think it would still be a no brainer to use and building a few muni caches will still allow you use it with relative frequency. I think the best solution would be to slow the ramp up time. I know it is an ability to punish a stagnant front line of tanks, but even when you move it is extremely damaging. I think a damage debuff could also be an effective solution. I just feel like this ability shouldn't be able to destroy a heavy tank all on it's own when other AT attacks have no chance of doing so.

5 Sep 2021, 05:37 AM
#2
avatar of RintFosk

Posts: 55

AT overwatch hits are limited and are evenly distributed to all armored target visible inside the ability casting circle, which means even if enemy has full vision, it will have trouble kill even one P4 if there are three P4 parked inside the circle.

The only circumstances that AT overwatch could KILL HEAVY TANK BY THE ABILITY ITSELF is when enemy has full vision on the area, AND there is only one axis heavy tank, AND the player choose to not moving the tank out of the overwatched area within 45 seconds.

The ability is hardly effective versus established axis armoured forces supported with proper infantry support and AA vehicle. It is only useful punishing overextended targets, optimally following after snares.

When using it in actual game it is hard to keep vision on the axis tank, since recon overflight would get shot down, flares requires mortar or sniper to be pushed into very risky position in order to be fired, infantry barely catches up the reversing not-snared tanks and often get killed by axis infantry.

This ability is fine, it does not need nerf.

-----------------------------------------------

Btw it would be great if you can provide a replay to show how AT overwatch could kill full health heavy tank by its own in real game, much appretiate
5 Sep 2021, 06:29 AM
#3
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4125 | Subs: 3

AT overwatch hits are limited and are evenly distributed to all armored target visible inside the ability casting circle, which means even if enemy has full vision, it will have trouble kill even one P4 if there are three P4 parked inside the circle.

The only circumstances that AT overwatch could KILL HEAVY TANK BY THE ABILITY ITSELF is when enemy has full vision on the area, AND there is only one axis heavy tank, AND the player choose to not moving the tank out of the overwatched area within 45 seconds.

The ability is hardly effective versus established axis armoured forces supported with proper infantry support and AA vehicle. It is only useful punishing overextended targets, optimally following after snares.

When using it in actual game it is hard to keep vision on the axis tank, since recon overflight would get shot down, flares requires mortar or sniper to be pushed into very risky position in order to be fired, infantry barely catches up the reversing not-snared tanks and often get killed by axis infantry.

This ability is fine, it does not need nerf.

-----------------------------------------------

Btw it would be great if you can provide a replay to show how AT overwatch could kill full health heavy tank by its own in real game, much appretiate


It's pretty brutal vs crippled tanks. Had someone t34 ram into my tiger and then called AT overwatch. I reverse moved immediately but I couldn't even get out of the circle before the tiger was dead. I'd like more tests done but sure felt like I couldn't do anything vs ram + point click.
5 Sep 2021, 06:49 AM
#4
avatar of Qmotion

Posts: 71

Step 1. Get a cheap 90 fuel T-34

step 2. Ram the enemy KT.

step 3. Press AT Overwatch

step 4. Enjoy the win
5 Sep 2021, 08:13 AM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Step 1. Get a cheap 90 fuel T-34

step 2. Ram the enemy KT.

step 3. Press AT Overwatch

step 4. Enjoy the win

You forgot about the step, where you need to patch the game to a state from before 2-3 patches, when ram worked as you think it does here.
5 Sep 2021, 08:34 AM
#6
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2200 | Subs: 1

BUT BUT BUT AXIS OP !!!!!! IN TEAMGAMES ESPECIALLY!!!!!!!
5 Sep 2021, 08:38 AM
#7
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1051

Step 1. Get a cheap 90 fuel T-34

step 2. Ram the enemy KT.

step 3. Press AT Overwatch

step 4. Enjoy the win


Mate if you have a time machine you should be investing in Bitcoin, not using it to go back and play CoH2 before stuff like this got patched out of relevancy.
5 Sep 2021, 09:02 AM
#8
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

BUT BUT BUT AXIS OP !!!!!! IN TEAMGAMES ESPECIALLY!!!!!!!

stop baiting
5 Sep 2021, 10:59 AM
#9
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 570

just move out of AOE effect.
5 Sep 2021, 12:09 PM
#10
avatar of RintFosk

Posts: 55



It's pretty brutal vs crippled tanks. Had someone t34 ram into my tiger and then called AT overwatch. I reverse moved immediately but I couldn't even get out of the circle before the tiger was dead. I'd like more tests done but sure felt like I couldn't do anything vs ram + point click.


It could be brutal if engine crits are triggered from ram penetration (160), but overall this is a risky gamble rather than a stable way to combo kill heavies.

Ram Crit Triggering Chance vs Axis Heavy Tank:
5 Sep 2021, 12:13 PM
#11
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

T-34 ram + AT Overwatch is the main reason I don't use JT any more. Even the stun is enough time to let the ability ramp up and then self spot with each new dmg instance. GL trying to ram double JP4 before the TDs shoot your face off.

Not sure if it needs a nerf but it's one of those 'skill' abilities that ramps up super fast so \o\
5 Sep 2021, 13:31 PM
#12
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1



anti-tank overwatch visualized against good axis players (75 IQ)

(they dont go into the circle)
5 Sep 2021, 14:30 PM
#13
avatar of RintFosk

Posts: 55

T-34 ram + AT Overwatch is the main reason I don't use JT any more. Even the stun is enough time to let the ability ramp up and then self spot with each new dmg instance. GL trying to ram double JP4 before the TDs shoot your face off.

Not sure if it needs a nerf but it's one of those 'skill' abilities that ramps up super fast so \o\




The arty hit doesn't provide renewed sight for subsequent hits, if it does then it would be so broken lmao.
DSM
5 Sep 2021, 14:32 PM
#14
avatar of DSM

Posts: 55





The arty hit doesn't provide renewed sight for subsequent hits, if it does then it would be so broken lmao.


Well, I mean you usually have at least one or two units providing vision when you drop that down
5 Sep 2021, 14:56 PM
#15
avatar of RintFosk

Posts: 55

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2021, 14:32 PMDSM


Well, I mean you usually have at least one or two units providing vision when you drop that down


The intention of the test is to prove that the ability doesn't self-spot.

AT overwatch do wreck heavy tanks absolutely no problem when sight is provided the whole time, and no more than 2 vehicles are distracting the arty hits, but it is also the most difficult thing to do in order to make it effective.

When using it in actual game it is hard to keep vision on the axis tank, since recon overflight would get shot down, flares requires mortar or sniper to be pushed into very risky position in order to be fired, infantry barely catches up the reversing not-snared tanks and often get killed by axis infantry.


When this ability works it usually being effective in helping secure a kill from combined arm push or punishing unsupported over-extending heavy tanks, OP claimed that this ability by its own could demolish any heavy tank without additional effort, I just want to prove that this statement is not true.
DSM
5 Sep 2021, 15:09 PM
#16
avatar of DSM

Posts: 55

I rarely write to balance forums if at all, but I myself would prefer this ability to be reworked as having off-map ml-20 type of shells with curving trajectory. the current trajectory of the projectiles is absurdly vertical, as if they are being fired from some astronouts inside the ISS up above. really damages thr immersiveness of the visuals in my opinion
5 Sep 2021, 17:56 PM
#17
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889





The arty hit doesn't provide renewed sight for subsequent hits, if it does then it would be so broken lmao.


My bad, I take it back then. I would hazard a guess that in my situation, there were Allied casualties on the ground from a supporting squad. Thus there was actually sight whilst there were no 'red units' visible.

Mind you, if the engine was damaged I don't think that JT (or a Tiger) would get out of there even with that sight range?

5 Sep 2021, 19:54 PM
#18
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4125 | Subs: 3



My bad, I take it back then. I would hazard a guess that in my situation, there were Allied casualties on the ground from a supporting squad. Thus there was actually sight whilst there were no 'red units' visible.

Mind you, if the engine was damaged I don't think that JT (or a Tiger) would get out of there even with that sight range?



Telepathic soviets back at it again.

Hell march theme
5 Sep 2021, 20:28 PM
#19
avatar of Qmotion

Posts: 71

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2021, 08:38 AMGrim


Mate if you have a time machine you should be investing in Bitcoin, not using it to go back and play CoH2 before stuff like this got patched out of relevancy.


It doesn’t matter if it’s patched out. The same principle still applies. It’s not higher science to make a Ram work. Just as easy as before except now you need to use exactly 3 braincells to make it function.
5 Sep 2021, 21:16 PM
#20
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

AT overwatch is not that good It has very slow targeting time ,many of shell didn't even penetrate the target and often misses on moving target.
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