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Allied inf should also have dmg reduction to AT Satchel

29 Aug 2021, 14:33 PM
#1
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

All axis inf. gets 20% dmg reduction from the explosion of Satchel Charge. So they don't OHK at full health.

Unless balance team is encouraging to do ISIS style suicide bombing, why not give Allies inf also get 20% dmg reduction from the Satchel Charge?

https://youtu.be/BVznJcaFlKI?t=680

I have confirmed that AT Satchel does deal 20% less damage to both OKW & WM infantry.

Vaz
29 Aug 2021, 15:29 PM
#2
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1145

wow that's fucked up, lol
29 Aug 2021, 15:34 PM
#3
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Its one of the last instances of Friendly Fire left. Its pretty funny though.
Pip
29 Aug 2021, 16:24 PM
#4
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

Do they? I wasnt aware that Axis got any damage reduction vs satchel charges... Though 20% reduction doesnt actually stop a satchel charge oneshotting infantry most of the time, except closing in at max range, since they have 240 damage base (Soviet ones apparently do 340 for whatever reason)
29 Aug 2021, 16:35 PM
#5
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 16:24 PMPip
Do they? I wasnt aware that Axis got any damage reduction vs satchel charges... Though 20% reduction doesnt actually stop a satchel charge oneshotting infantry most of the time, except closing in at max range, since they have 240 damage base (Soviet ones apparently do 340 for whatever reason)


If you don't trust me, go test yourself.

FYI, here is my test. After throwing shatchel, I ran into the kubel. Only cavalry rifle got 4 units killed.
While Axis had no units killed. (All auto-attack has been disabled by cheat mode)

+ Another test with allied unit as enemy confirmed that they do gets killed. So... I'm not sure the exact mechanism over satchel dmg over inf, but it is clear that it deals more than 80 to any allies inf. while it deals maximum of 68(according to the Korean stat site) to the Axis inf units.

+ Calvary satchel & Soviet satchel shares same data. It's default dmg is 340, but vehicle gets 70% dmg(240) and I guess infs. also get somewhat damage reduction to 80. And Axis inf gets + 20% dmg reduction(68).

CoH2 stats are so complicated yet their is no way to know for exactly unless someone decompile the game itself. I whish this thing gets updated in CoH3. For example, ST2 has in-game unit stat wiki.



29 Aug 2021, 18:15 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13149 | Subs: 1

Axis infantry do not have damage reduction.

There is simply separate modifier for friendly fire.

That was the case with ST as far I remember where it would wipe friendly unit and only damage enemy units.
Vaz
29 Aug 2021, 18:25 PM
#7
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1145

gaslighting doesn't work in the face of an actual test as evidence
29 Aug 2021, 18:26 PM
#8
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 18:15 PMVipper
Axis infantry do not have damage reduction.

There is simply separate modifier for friendly fire.

That was the case with ST as far I remember where it would wipe friendly unit and only damage enemy units.


Could you please do some test before posting "I'm 100% currect" tone?

Cause when I tested it as I replied earlier, axis unit does't get killed while allies unit does. Both set as an enemy.
Vaz
29 Aug 2021, 18:39 PM
#9
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1145

I've watched from the beginning as hoardes of players have complained about instant kills from allies. I must have missed the notes, but I'm not surprised there is such a change that was made. The limiter placed on mines was stupid too. Everything being done to reduce punishment on people. If it were up to me, all of them would be removed. You don't like losing men to mine? Sweep first. I see people do it all the time when their panther or tiger gets caught by a mine from m20 and it's crippled. Next time they come around they have a sweeper(usually, some are hard headed). The brumbar is still squad wiping. The big tanks are still squad wiping. Rockets are squad wiping. Do we need to put limits on all this stuff?
29 Aug 2021, 18:49 PM
#10
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 18:39 PMVaz
I've watched from the beginning as hoardes of players have complained about instant kills from allies. I must have missed the notes, but I'm not surprised there is such a change that was made. The limiter placed on mines was stupid too. Everything being done to reduce punishment on people. If it were up to me, all of them would be removed. You don't like losing men to mine? Sweep first. I see people do it all the time when their panther or tiger gets caught by a mine from m20 and it's crippled. Next time they come around they have a sweeper(usually, some are hard headed). The brumbar is still squad wiping. The big tanks are still squad wiping. Rockets are squad wiping. Do we need to put limits on all this stuff?


Game is slowly changing to have consistency & give more room for a control. If not, we would see unit like ST that can wipe a unit with one shot. Or plane crash to the Major that wipes 2~3 squads. Tournament mode doesn't even allow main gun destroyed from vehicle in the same reason.
In last upcoming patch, they also increase target size of sandbag so we all can expect to destory it with certain shots. (Please increase target size of abandoned weapons too...)

I do agree RNG is one of the thing that makes barebone of CoH series, but we have to balance things to have player a room for a expectation.

Mine on the door of the house to insta-wipe squad is very painful & no-fun to watch. Restricting mine kill to 2 men was reasonable(IMO) change, because we all can expect the outcome (1~2 model drop), previous to the change, even full health could have been wiped if they were closed (for example partisian responded from the house can be wiped)

Moreover, this issue is about fairness. If Axis inf does not get OHK from AT Satchel, Allies inf unit shouldn't have OHK from AT Satchel either. Unless someone comes in to argue this is one of the "asymmetric balance" issue.
Vaz
29 Aug 2021, 19:54 PM
#11
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1145

Well first, we already have ST

Plane crash, I'm not really talking about. That was just dumb.

Mine on the door is ok with me

1-2 model drop from mine is not fair. 2 soviet conscripts are not same cost as 2 wm grenadiers. Therefore, wm losses more economically.
29 Aug 2021, 19:58 PM
#12
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 19:54 PMVaz

1-2 model drop from mine is not fair. 2 soviet conscripts are not same cost as 2 wm grenadiers. Therefore, wm losses more economically.


Well, to be fair, WM anti-inf mine doesn't suffered much from model-drop restriction. It still has potential to wipe squad especially at late game. And can be planted cost-effectively (plant partially & move on)
29 Aug 2021, 20:23 PM
#13
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

just dont throw satchels and u wont lose your squad. lol
Pip
29 Aug 2021, 20:47 PM
#14
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580



If you don't trust me, go test yourself.

FYI, here is my test. After throwing shatchel, I ran into the kubel. Only cavalry rifle got 4 units killed.
While Axis had no units killed. (All auto-attack has been disabled by cheat mode)

+ Another test with allied unit as enemy confirmed that they do gets killed. So... I'm not sure the exact mechanism over satchel dmg over inf, but it is clear that it deals more than 80 to any allies inf. while it deals maximum of 68(according to the Korean stat site) to the Axis inf units.

+ Calvary satchel & Soviet satchel shares same data. It's default dmg is 340, but vehicle gets 70% dmg(240) and I guess infs. also get somewhat damage reduction to 80. And Axis inf gets + 20% dmg reduction(68).

CoH2 stats are so complicated yet their is no way to know for exactly unless someone decompile the game itself. I whish this thing gets updated in CoH3. For example, ST2 has in-game unit stat wiki.





Very strange. This seems like some sort of obscure bug more than anything else, though it should definitely be fixed/made more consistent.

I wonder why this happens?
30 Aug 2021, 00:13 AM
#15
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 20:47 PMPip


Very strange. This seems like some sort of obscure bug more than anything else, though it should definitely be fixed/made more consistent.

I wonder why this happens?


I'd be happy ro find a patch note for axis only dmg reduction only if I have access to old balance patch notes.
It seems all is lost after site rework.
30 Aug 2021, 02:35 AM
#16
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905



I'd be happy ro find a patch note for axis only dmg reduction only if I have access to old balance patch notes.
It seems all is lost after site rework.


Fear not brother, nothing is lost. Here you find all patch notes from 2013 up to today. Happy reading:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/4307/company-of-heroes-2-changelog
30 Aug 2021, 03:35 AM
#17
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471



Fear not brother, nothing is lost. Here you find all patch notes from 2013 up to today. Happy reading:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/4307/company-of-heroes-2-changelog


Thank you for the link!

However, I cannot find what suppose to be un 2018 winter patch(December).

But please feel free to test yourself in cheat mode if anyone don't buy my words.
30 Aug 2021, 04:11 AM
#18
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 174

Lawl of course Dane enjoyed that. If the same thing caused an axis squad to get wiped he would be crying for weeks
30 Aug 2021, 04:30 AM
#19
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Based Kübelwagen, Allah wills it.
30 Aug 2021, 09:02 AM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13149 | Subs: 1



Could you please do some test before posting "I'm 100% currect" tone?

Cause when I tested it as I replied earlier, axis unit does't get killed while allies unit does. Both set as an enemy.

I did not question weather a enemy units take less damage or not. What I question was your interpenetration that axis infantry have a "secret" damage modifier which I am pretty sure the do not.

I suggest you do the same test and use axis infantry in the same side as satchel and I am pretty sure they will get as much damage as allied infantry.

This issue seem to have to do with the friendly fire modifiers and not with "axis" vs "allies" infantry.
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