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CoH2 Summer 2021 Balance Patch - BETA

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28 Aug 2021, 01:20 AM
#261
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 478

So the bolster cost was reverted but Ostruppen can still get their LMG at BP2? That makes very little sense. All upgrades for Grens are going to be strong at this point plus Ostruppen and Assault Grenadiers are going to still be strong. Not sure why the sprint + camo change was reverted either honestly. Giving continuous buffs to Ostheer isn't a good decision imo. They are probably the best faction in at least 1v1 and 2v2. Otherwise at least they are increasing the cost of the AVRE and Sturmtiger but I kind of wish they just reworked the units instead to be less cancerous, probably too late now to do that though. I also have some concerns with buffing 5-man, I get they want 5-man to be able to compete with 7-man, SVT's, and 5-man Bolster for Brits but I think buffing 5-man is going to leave USF in the dust imo who are going to be able to trade against 5-man unless they go Double Bar or maybe a 1919 behind sandbags at mid to long range.
28 Aug 2021, 03:23 AM
#262
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 211

Would changing the Elefant/Jagdtiger like this make the game more balanced?
Range from 70 to 60.
Damage from 300 to 320(400).
Maybe decrease cost (cp/fuel) too.

Easier to counter, less obnoxious to deal with on maps like Kharkov/rails, while still being a threat with the 2 shot Potential.
28 Aug 2021, 06:26 AM
#263
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2021, 03:23 AMGeblobt
Would changing the Elefant/Jagdtiger like this make the game more balanced?
Range from 70 to 60.
Damage from 300 to 320(400).
Maybe decrease cost (cp/fuel) too.

Easier to counter, less obnoxious to deal with on maps like Kharkov/rails, while still being a threat with the 2 shot Potential.


no. it will just make the games quicker with less chance of recovery comeback. a no-no.
N/A
28 Aug 2021, 06:54 AM
#264
avatar of N/A

Posts: 27

I'm glad to see that the animation is fixed.
There are some animation errors below, I hope they can be fixed together.

This is an animation error that occurred in Elefant, Ostwind and Tiger, hull MG.
hull mg cannot point at the enemy.



Modify the anim_table in hull mg ( mg34_hull_mp, ostwind_mg34_hull_mp )
track_horizontal / hull_mg42_01_horiz => mg_hull_horizontal
track_vertical / hull_mg42_01_vert => mg_hull_vertical
This will fix the animation.



The following are the things Mod Tools cannot fix.

Sdkfz 251 MG has no fire animation



The Churchill AVRE shooting animation is wrong, and the cannonball fired from the front is different from the direction of the turret.



Churchill Crocodile Flamethrower shooting animation is wrong, the flame animation is not synchronized with the muzzle, it can only be facing forward.



Another view



In World builder, you can see Hetzer, Jagdpanzer, Jagdtiger, there are main_gun_horiz animation, but the input value does not match the angle of the animation change.
Can the error be corrected so that the animation can be used on the weapon.



and, If you have enough time, can you try to fix it Sdkfz 251 IR Searchlight this error, and restore it to the original working mode.

Finally, I hope to update Mod Tools, which is important for Mod authors.

Thanks.

My English is not good, and I may not be able to express it correctly.
28 Aug 2021, 08:51 AM
#265
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



I played with original skin colours, how about this? Summer one has brutal camo, like german panther and tiger ace in vCoH, and winter has the same scheme, but with white colour as base

This actually looks good, any chance we get it?
28 Aug 2021, 09:05 AM
#266
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13163 | Subs: 1

28 Aug 2021, 10:34 AM
#267
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

The Stug E remains an horrible tank, its main gun is really, really terrible, lacks 80 damage AOE and still needs to be babysitted more than a Brummbar and Scott. It's a 75 fuel smoke dispenser without a turret and that doesn't justify the cost

https://coh2.serealia.ca/#92

It's not good at all at shelling emplacements either. It's overall just a poor choice, and kills Defensive doctrine entirely (Osttruppen is just better and Stug E being this bad makes it worse) and is mostly ignored in Mechanized Assault (a subpar version of Strategic Reserves imo)

Its vet 1 ability is a joke too
28 Aug 2021, 13:14 PM
#268
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660






It would be nice to have the normal Grenadier uniforms replaced by a recolor of the new Assault Grenadiers uniforms (like Assault Sections and Cavalry Riflemen compared to normal riflemen and sections)

The originals are unique but also look really bad and I don't think anybody will miss them. Hell even the same ass grens uniform copy pasted would be great
28 Aug 2021, 20:58 PM
#269
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1844 | Subs: 1

The Scott changes are a step in the right direction - at Vet 2 a barrage will very reliably either kill or force a retreat from a support weapon. IMO the problem is that Scott is shoehorned into this precision barrage role which while good isn't useful in many situations. (support weapon walls, camping around trucks or reinforcement bunkers, etc.). What the Scott really needs is an "area saturation Barrage" option that's closer to a Land Mattress type barrage so that you aren't stuck picking off support weapons one at a time.
28 Aug 2021, 21:11 PM
#270
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1844 | Subs: 1

A round of positive changes.

I agree with Vipper, merging camo and sprint was a mistake. I'd rather make sprint and tactical movement one and separate the sprint ability and camo ability into specific commanders


Merging Sprint and Tactical Movement makes sense. The problem is that the Ambush Camo by itself is pretty soso and probably isn't worth a slot by itself (even moreso if they nerf the damage bonus as planned). I suppose they could change it so that the Ambush Bonus gives you a brief speed bonus like Commando's. This probably makes sense thematically as I assume the idea was also that the unit is sprinting out of an ambush position.

On that note I'm very confused why they are nerfing the Ambush Damage and reverting the tying Sprint to the upgrade. I get that Jaeger Infantry is super meta and they are probably trying to tone it down more but LMG Ambush Camo is far from a problem there. (Ambush Grens are an afterthought if anything). Having access to global Sprint-Fausts is WAY more of a balance issue. I was a big fan of that change and hope it gets reconsidered. The way I see it is that Ambush Camo isn't an expensive upgrade so if you want access to Sprint Fausts then it's not back breaking to pay for it via upgrade.
28 Aug 2021, 21:24 PM
#271
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Merging Sprint and Tactical Movement makes sense. The problem is that the Ambush Camo by itself is pretty soso and probably isn't worth a slot by itself (even moreso if they nerf the damage bonus as planned). I suppose they could change it so that the Ambush Bonus gives you a brief speed bonus like Commando's. This probably makes sense thematically as I assume the idea was also that the unit is sprinting out of an ambush position.

On that note I'm very confused why they are nerfing the Ambush Damage and reverting the tying Sprint to the upgrade. I get that Jaeger Infantry is super meta and they are probably trying to tone it down more but LMG Ambush Camo is far from a problem there. (Ambush Grens are an afterthought if anything). Having access to global Sprint-Fausts is WAY more of a balance issue. I was a big fan of that change and hope it gets reconsidered. The way I see it is that Ambush Camo isn't an expensive upgrade so if you want access to Sprint Fausts then it's not back breaking to pay for it via upgrade.

I already had proposed it (even in the last patch, when the issue of the "ambush faust" was the justification behind the ambush range nerf), but ambush camo should have been merged with the G43 upgrade slot (which is currently still mostly ignored in favour of lmg42), and made mutually exclusive with lmg42 and free for g43.
My idea was that if ambush to sprint and faust was such an issue having ambush and sprint be in separate commanders would have solved the issue without nerfing camo. It also would have helped G43 stay more relevant compared to the more efficient a-move lmg grens without necessarily increasing its raw game power.

I think it was a sensible suggestion, and I saw some other good suggestions too, but those threads always feel like a waste of time. They still increased the detection radius to 20, which made the ambush even better with lmg42 and worse with g43s (and still allowed sprint snare as we clearly saw in the current tournament, because 20 meters for a sprinting grens with the good faust range is nothing, especially since it's the enemy tank that comes to you)

I agree that the nerf on the bonus makes no sense whatsoever. You would think that they would incentivize using ambush camo for what is meant to do... ambush, and it's a flat nerf on ALL Gren weapons, including G43s.

I have been advocating for a buff to VSL Grens for a while, and being told that they are "OK" and that the G43 was basically similar to the StG44, but they are buffing it now.

No change to address the ridicolous bleed of Volksgrenadiers by late game, but they are not gonna fix Panzerfusiliers either, that have been used as late game braindead OP crutch to compensate for the shitty stock mainline ever since.
28 Aug 2021, 23:04 PM
#272
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

No one likes fighting against Stealth rifle grenades and Stealth super ranged Fausts. Its just brutally punishing.
29 Aug 2021, 07:45 AM
#273
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1377





It would be nice to have the normal Grenadier uniforms replaced by a recolor of the new Assault Grenadiers uniforms (like Assault Sections and Cavalry Riflemen compared to normal riflemen and sections)

The originals are unique but also look really bad and I don't think anybody will miss them. Hell even the same ass grens uniform copy pasted would be great


Big idea of this changes was to give units without unique visuals their own style. There are still some units, which can get some attention, but regular grens are not in this list right now due to they already have unique visuals.

Speaking about assgrens model, as you can see, it has MP 40/StG 44 ammopacks instead of Kar98k, that was one of the reasons, why they got this model.
That’s why just replacing grens model with this one is not what i like tbh


This actually looks good, any chance we get it?

I don’t know, that was made in my free time without any request. Anyway, that’s just texture, not finished skin
29 Aug 2021, 09:25 AM
#274
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 838 | Subs: 1

The Pershing buff is completely unnecessary! The unit does not need another buff. The rest of the changes is fine imo.
29 Aug 2021, 09:35 AM
#275
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195



I played with original skin colours, how about this? Summer one has brutal camo, like german panther and tiger ace in vCoH, and winter has the same scheme, but with white colour as base



Changing both OST Tiger Ace and OKW Command Tiger skins would be amazing if possible. They look really bad right now.

I'm not sure if the modders involved in the project want to put in the effort or if Relic even allows it, but I'd love to see these two units made to look cooler.

The OST Tiger Ace yellow skin looks like a WH40K Ork Looted Tank (of the Bad Moon variety) while the OKW Command Tiger is too plain.
Pip
29 Aug 2021, 10:18 AM
#276
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580



Big idea of this changes was to give units without unique visuals their own style. There are still some units, which can get some attention, but regular grens are not in this list right now due to they already have unique visuals.

Speaking about assgrens model, as you can see, it has MP 40/StG 44 ammopacks instead of Kar98k, that was one of the reasons, why they got this model.
That’s why just replacing grens model with this one is not what i like tbh


I don’t know, that was made in my free time without any request. Anyway, that’s just texture, not finished skin


The gren model itself is fine, I think. Perhaps changing the trousers to the same feldgrau as the shirt under the jacket would be enough to make them look a little less daft?

Most other OST units have a two-tone scheme in that fashion.
29 Aug 2021, 10:56 AM
#277
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 802

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 10:18 AMPip


The gren model itself is fine, I think. Perhaps changing the trousers to the same feldgrau as the shirt under the jacket would be enough to make them look a little less daft?

Most other OST units have a two-tone scheme in that fashion.


i think that then would make it look too similar to the winter variant of pgrens.

Regarding the patch, buffing the pershing is a big mistake. Other changes are good though
Pip
29 Aug 2021, 20:49 PM
#278
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 10:56 AMAlphrum


i think that then would make it look too similar to the winter variant of pgrens.

Regarding the patch, buffing the pershing is a big mistake. Other changes are good though


Perhaps, though the Winter Pgrens and Summer Grens don't appear together, so it's not as though you're ever going to confuse the two.
1 Sep 2021, 05:49 AM
#279
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 421 | Subs: 2

Ideally, the galaxybrain skin for Grens would be vanilla Gren model without full camo suit (probably similar to new Assgren) and winter Volks model.

Whether or not we'll get permission to touch skins again is a whole different issue :)
1 Sep 2021, 06:20 AM
#280
avatar of Harry

Posts: 159

Just want to mention a funny bug I have discovered that may be useful for the patch team. This is something I discovered a couple of years ago. If you use cheat-mod version 1, develop a crewable 17 pdr, and then let any of the german troops crew the gun, you will see all the crew members have their helmet missing. I am not sure if the patch team could find out what happened. And maybe, create a unique weapon crew model for the UKF machine gun team. You know, no helmet royal engineer + retexture uniform may actually work.
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