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Why are REs 200mp?

12 Aug 2021, 18:09 PM
#1
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 190

They are the worst engineer squad in the game in terms of combat ability, sov engies are far more powerful in that regard and cheaper. Ost pios are decent at close range in the beginning, get very good combat ability similar to sov engies with non doc flame thrower. Zook REs are no equivalent at all to flame throwers which require no tech, flamers are meta, bazooka is not (and requires teching) and rarely show up until mid or late when floating muni.

Why are REs 200? Please don't say because they build tank traps fast. That is not significant when compared to their crap combat ability.
12 Aug 2021, 18:37 PM
#2
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 449

No because there was RE spam tactic back then when it was cheaper in construction/reinforce cost.

It was cheesy especially because they could pick up 2 bars. Its like osttruppen is cheesy these days. Even worse because they don't need micro to get into cover all the time & has faster equip time.

The good news is USF don't quite need second RE unless the first one got wiped or you are going for the Pershing(which in that case, most likely to be doomed anyway)
12 Aug 2021, 18:41 PM
#3
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

I would say it's their doctrinal grenade upgrade and the ability to throw smoke, but also they do work well as soft at unit with the double bazookas
12 Aug 2021, 18:48 PM
#4
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3318 | Subs: 1

2x zooks on REs is better than you suggest imo. I get them early if I go LT tech. Vet them up and you get the 5th man
12 Aug 2021, 20:08 PM
#5
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Because if they get reduced to 170-180 then it’ll be very easy to equip 2-3 of them with M1919s and spam suppressive fire.
12 Aug 2021, 20:47 PM
#6
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

Lower to 170-180MP, reduce reinforcement cost, take away one weapon slot. Problem solved.
12 Aug 2021, 21:18 PM
#7
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 374 | Subs: 1

Because in America, nothing is free.
12 Aug 2021, 21:22 PM
#8
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1344

REs are more than fine as they are now. Double the zook on them, with lieu double zook, you have a good defensive AT that has no rotation problems, slap a major double zook and you have a forward OKW base killer. Lost count of how many forward bases I've killed by running with a 6 zook blob (RE + RE + major) sneakily and dropping a major arty + smoke ground attack with zooks. Not to mention you have a great potential squad you can bait tanks into
13 Aug 2021, 00:41 AM
#9
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2021, 18:09 PMReverb
They are the worst engineer squad in the game in terms of combat ability, sov engies are far more powerful in that regard and cheaper. Ost pios are decent at close range in the beginning, get very good combat ability similar to sov engies with non doc flame thrower. Zook REs are no equivalent at all to flame throwers which require no tech, flamers are meta, bazooka is not (and requires teching) and rarely show up until mid or late when floating muni.

Why are REs 200? Please don't say because they build tank traps fast. That is not significant when compared to their crap combat ability.


Compared to other engineer units you can actually get weapons on them and don't talk about flamer as RE can get that too with commander pick. That is one of the reasons it's 200mp
13 Aug 2021, 03:16 AM
#10
avatar of GoforGiantsV3

Posts: 82

long ago RE was 160/20/4, yeah they were weak at that time too, but had good synergy with weapon Racks, so 2 BAR RE Spamming was worked pretty well, so Nerfed.
14 Aug 2021, 09:49 AM
#11
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 548

Personally I would like to see Rear Echelon go up in price to say 300 MP (to prevent spam and be on par with Sturmpioneers price wise) but start as 5 Man Squad with the same pop cap/reinforce cost as it is now.

This would allow the Rear Echelon to start off as a stronger support unit allowing it to be more useful early on while at the same time not replacing Rifleman as the 300 MP cost wouldn't make sense to spam them when you could make Rifleman which are stronger and cheaper.

This would also benefit Rifle Company since the Flamethrower upgrade for Rear Echelon at the moment is rather sub-par when compared to Assault Engineers which Cost 280 Manpower, have better repair as well as great short range damage as well as coming with a Flamethrower option.

This would give a valid choice between cost efficient Flamethrower squad by choosing Rifle Company or Stronger Squad overall with Assault Engineers but bleeds more.

Also starting with 5 squad members would make Volley Fire slightly more attractive since the squad can actually survive before it goes off.

14 Aug 2021, 14:23 PM
#12
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 449

Personally I would like to see Rear Echelon go up in price to say 300 MP (to prevent spam and be on par with Sturmpioneers price wise) but start as 5 Man Squad with the same pop cap/reinforce cost as it is now.

This would allow the Rear Echelon to start off as a stronger support unit allowing it to be more useful early on while at the same time not replacing Rifleman as the 300 MP cost wouldn't make sense to spam them when you could make Rifleman which are stronger and cheaper.

This would also benefit Rifle Company since the Flamethrower upgrade for Rear Echelon at the moment is rather sub-par when compared to Assault Engineers which Cost 280 Manpower, have better repair as well as great short range damage as well as coming with a Flamethrower option.

This would give a valid choice between cost efficient Flamethrower squad by choosing Rifle Company or Stronger Squad overall with Assault Engineers but bleeds more.

Also starting with 5 squad members would make Volley Fire slightly more attractive since the squad can actually survive before it goes off.



Are we talking about how to nerf RE?
15 Aug 2021, 13:16 PM
#13
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 209

not gonna argue that RE's are the most shit squad ingame, but they are also the least essential to have, where 1 is usually enough for building caches and fighting pit, helping to repair tanks, taking only 5 pop.

for OST and SOV they are essential, often 2 needed for buildings and tank repairs, costing 340-400mp 10pop

to a lesser degree for OKW and UKF depending on circumstances.
but can quickly end up with double sappers/sturmpio costing 420-600 12-16pop.

yes they are shit, but arent that important to lose/have unless a special doctrine is played
15 Aug 2021, 13:25 PM
#14
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1344

If I'd buff anything on REs it's the close range dmg output. And that's a big if. They are well rounded currently. AI wise they are shi* but sill can carry zooks which can prove to be a lifesaver during enemy tank dives. And their mines are beyond s*** but still offer decent enough of a stun. I'd buff the stun duration on the mine by a couple of seconds. Don't know why people complain about REs being UP
22 Aug 2021, 01:55 AM
#15
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 782

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2021, 18:09 PMReverb
They are the worst engineer squad in the game in terms of combat ability, sov engies are far more powerful in that regard


Have you compared the weapon profiles of RE to CE? If you had you would realize this is blatantly false. Sure CE can pick up a flamethrower, but they sacrifice minesweeper to do it. RE can take zooks or BARs or 1919 lmg and still take a sweeper. With vet RE are vastly superior to either pios or CE.
22 Aug 2021, 04:10 AM
#16
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

RE's are an over priced Smoke shooting, tank trap, "use this ability to take more damage and soak up muni", unit with no real staying power or desirable traits. They are a big fat manpower sink that unless in a building and within arms reach aren't worth the cost nor time.

There are countless ways to buff this unit for its price or simply increase it to 250 where it should be and buff its performance. I'd argue for the 250 since USF early vs OKW Sturms appear to be the hardest opener for USF.
22 Aug 2021, 09:38 AM
#17
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 548

not gonna argue that RE's are the most shit squad ingame, but they are also the least essential to have, where 1 is usually enough for building caches and fighting pit, helping to repair tanks, taking only 5 pop.




jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2021, 04:10 AMMittens
Sturms appear to be the hardest opener for USF.



This is exactly why I am advocating for them to Cost 300 Manpower and to start as a 5 man squad.
The last thing we want is to go back to the Rear Echelon Spam days. Hence the price increase. The Extra Squad Member would be enough to make it unique (the only 5 man Engineer Squad) and would help with OKW matchups(easily the most difficult start out of all the allied factions due to RE being useless vs SturmPioneers) and you only really need 1 squad for cache building and the extra squad member would assist with repairing.

It wouldn't impact Whermacht matchups and would help vs Sturmpioneer. It would be a solid change, and a fair trade especially if you consider that a new Vet 3 would have to be added(since the current Vet 3 is the 5th Squad Member) it would make the unit more useful overall.
26 Aug 2021, 17:18 PM
#18
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 149








This is exactly why I am advocating for them to Cost 300 Manpower and to start as a 5 man squad.
The last thing we want is to go back to the Rear Echelon Spam days. Hence the price increase. The Extra Squad Member would be enough to make it unique (the only 5 man Engineer Squad) and would help with OKW matchups(easily the most difficult start out of all the allied factions due to RE being useless vs SturmPioneers) and you only really need 1 squad for cache building and the extra squad member would assist with repairing.

It wouldn't impact Whermacht matchups and would help vs Sturmpioneer. It would be a solid change, and a fair trade especially if you consider that a new Vet 3 would have to be added(since the current Vet 3 is the 5th Squad Member) it would make the unit more useful overall.


i wouldnt even pay 200MP 5pop even if RE comes with 5 man squad. RE DPS is dogshit tier
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