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Necessary changes for OKW

3 Aug 2021, 10:41 AM
#1
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 380

1. Access to panzerfaust from the setting up off on first truck. It should not be necessary to upgrade the truck before panzerfaust unlocks. Ostheer panzerfaust was unlocked from 0 minute for the exact same reason OKW need it unlocked from T0. This may not be as noticeable in 1v1, however, in 2v2 upwards its a problem, especially in large team games.
2. If trucks are all upgraded, then get destroyed - all the upgrades should not need to be purchased again. This is just silly, needs to be fixed ASAP.

This may not be a very noticeable in 1v1, however, in every game mode above that OKW are broken for these two reasons.

These are NOT massive changes, how we got to this point for OKW is beyond me, but I guess it was in the hands of the experts.
3 Aug 2021, 11:02 AM
#2
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2386 | Subs: 2

1. Access to panzerfaust from the setting up off on first truck. It should not be necessary to upgrade the truck before panzerfaust unlocks. Ostheer panzerfaust was unlocked from 0 minute for the exact same reason OKW need it unlocked from T0. This may not be as noticeable in 1v1, however, in 2v2 upwards its a problem, especially in large team games.
2. If trucks are all upgraded, then get destroyed - all the upgrades should not need to be purchased again. This is just silly, needs to be fixed ASAP.

This may not be a very noticeable in 1v1, however, in every game mode above that OKW are broken for these two reasons.

These are NOT massive changes, how we got to this point for OKW is beyond me, but I guess it was in the hands of the experts.

To 1: I can see a point, but unlike OST, OKW has their own Kubelwagen to apply bleed, 5 men squads and a T0 Raketenwerfer. I think this is enough that an even earlier Faust is not needed.
to 2: I can see reasons for both stances here, but you also give no reasoning why this is too punishing. Although not the perfect comparison, an upgraded UKF FOB also does not keep the upgrades if destroyed. Apart from medics in OKW's T1, no upgrade is THAT vital to not be able to factor it into the risk cost.

One last point, since you seem to be concerned about team games: OKW is doing decent (1v1-3v3) to great (4v4) in team games. If they get these buffs, what would you suggest that OKW must give to even it out?
3 Aug 2021, 11:05 AM
#3
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 210

1. Access to panzerfaust from the setting up off on first truck. It should not be necessary to upgrade the truck before panzerfaust unlocks. Ostheer panzerfaust was unlocked from 0 minute for the exact same reason OKW need it unlocked from T0. This may not be as noticeable in 1v1, however, in 2v2 upwards its a problem, especially in large team games.
2. If trucks are all upgraded, then get destroyed - all the upgrades should not need to be purchased again. This is just silly, needs to be fixed ASAP.

This may not be a very noticeable in 1v1, however, in every game mode above that OKW are broken for these two reasons.

These are NOT massive changes, how we got to this point for OKW is beyond me, but I guess it was in the hands of the experts.


Hmm, fair point, Wehrmacht should get their panzerfausts locked behind an upgrade

No pity for bad building placement though
3 Aug 2021, 11:51 AM
#4
avatar of waasdijki

Posts: 72

1. I dont see a reason to unlock the panzerfaust since they have a t0 at-gun
2. Don't build where your enemy can destroy your buildings
3 Aug 2021, 12:33 PM
#5
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 202

For OST, isn't Faust unlocked for building T1. Weird requirement since you can"t build unit without it.

OKW was reworked and price of some building were split up so what your asking for is a discount.
3 Aug 2021, 13:31 PM
#6
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 179

1. Access to panzerfaust from the setting up off on first truck. It should not be necessary to upgrade the truck before panzerfaust unlocks. Ostheer panzerfaust was unlocked from 0 minute for the exact same reason OKW need it unlocked from T0. This may not be as noticeable in 1v1, however, in 2v2 upwards its a problem, especially in large team games.


I dont think thats necessary. Only M3A1, WC51 and UC arrrive before the Faust gets unlocked. You can gun down M3 with 2 squads. UC and WC51 are very effective at long range, so you wont get the shit volks snare off vs any decent player.

The only thing that sucks is how long it takes to get Battlegroup up in comparison to pre patch Battlegroup.


2. If trucks are all upgraded, then get destroyed - all the upgrades should not need to be purchased again. This is just silly, needs to be fixed ASAP.

This may not be a very noticeable in 1v1, however, in every game mode above that OKW are broken for these two reasons.

These are NOT massive changes, how we got to this point for OKW is beyond me, but I guess it was in the hands of the experts.


I agree atleast with Panzer Authorization. It kinda sucks that you have to repurchase it.

4 Aug 2021, 09:18 AM
#7
avatar of Grim

Posts: 983


2. If trucks are all upgraded, then get destroyed - all the upgrades should not need to be purchased again. This is just silly, needs to be fixed ASAP.


If I place a unit in the field and it is destroyed I do not expect its replacement to have those upgrades.

It's a risk you have to take when leaving the base sector.

edit: While we're on the topic of 'necessary' changes for OKW can we please lose the 6th man with the Pzfuss G43 upgrade, delay stuka timing and increase assault artillery cost. Thx.
4 Aug 2021, 09:55 AM
#8
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 380

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2021, 09:18 AMGrim


If I place a unit in the field and it is destroyed I do not expect its replacement to have those upgrades.

It's a risk you have to take when leaving the base sector.

edit: While we're on the topic of 'necessary' changes for OKW can we please lose the 6th man with the Pzfuss G43 upgrade, delay stuka timing and increase assault artillery cost. Thx.


I'm talking about the tech upgrades. Ostheer pay for the tech once, regardless of whether or not the building gets destroyed - they don't have to tech again. Tech is tech, unit upgrades are upgrades not tech.
4 Aug 2021, 11:08 AM
#9
avatar of Grim

Posts: 983



I'm talking about the tech upgrades. Ostheer pay for the tech once, regardless of whether or not the building gets destroyed - they don't have to tech again. Tech is tech, unit upgrades are upgrades not tech.


I know what you're talking about.
4 Aug 2021, 12:01 PM
#10
avatar of Tetranet

Posts: 195

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2021, 09:18 AMGrim


edit: While we're on the topic of 'necessary' changes for OKW can we please lose the 6th man with the Pzfuss G43 upgrade]


It always felt strange and unnecessary to me, along with the 6th Assault Grenadier. Five should be the max for the entire faction.



Axis is supposed to keep to a low model count theme of well equipped infantry, of which Panzerfusiliers certainly are. It has to be said though that the balance team had a massive success with Panzerfusilier rework and the Sturm Offizier. Anyone remember how clunky these units were before the New Commander Patch?
4 Aug 2021, 22:03 PM
#11
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 380

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2021, 11:08 AMGrim


I know what you're talking about.


Yeah now you do, prior to my last response you had no idea.
4 Aug 2021, 22:41 PM
#12
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 210



It always felt strange and unnecessary to me, along with the 6th Assault Grenadier. Five should be the max for the entire faction.



Axis is supposed to keep to a low model count theme of well equipped infantry, of which Panzerfusiliers certainly are. It has to be said though that the balance team had a massive success with Panzerfusilier rework and the Sturm Offizier. Anyone remember how clunky these units were before the New Commander Patch?


I liked the forced retreat if the officer model dies, it punished blobbing, something pfusiliers are basically made for. at least it doesn't have the funny free aura around it, but instead it has "hey you will retreat 1 squad and be outnumbered lololol", which gets annoying if spammed.


Why the pfusiliers have minute 0 snare is beyond me. It has a considerably longer range than a volks pfaust...
Pip
4 Aug 2021, 23:21 PM
#13
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1503



I liked the forced retreat if the officer model dies, it punished blobbing, something pfusiliers are basically made for. at least it doesn't have the funny free aura around it, but instead it has "hey you will retreat 1 squad and be outnumbered lololol", which gets annoying if spammed.


Why the pfusiliers have minute 0 snare is beyond me. It has a considerably longer range than a volks pfaust...


Forced retreat was an awful idea. It didn't specifically punish blobbing, it just added a really aggravating level of RNG to infantry engagements. You can't control whether or not your Officer gets sniped, so all that happened was that sometimes you lost infantry engagements for absolutely no reason other than your enemy's infantry decided to target the wrong model.
4 Aug 2021, 23:57 PM
#14
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 210

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2021, 23:21 PMPip


Forced retreat was an awful idea. It didn't specifically punish blobbing, it just added a really aggravating level of RNG to infantry engagements. You can't control whether or not your Officer gets sniped, so all that happened was that sometimes you lost infantry engagements for absolutely no reason other than your enemy's infantry decided to target the wrong model.

it wasn't awful for me because the go-to method with dealing against these blobs was to lose the model trade, but snipe the officer by focusing fire on the squad itself, since they never tried to use the officer in the back of the blobs. However you'd probably still lose more models than they do, but at least you hold the frontline.

although they should've kept the old buffing-remaining enemies after retreating an enemy squad, its not exactly fun to play on general axis and have your machine gun/squad be K.O. (each time the enemy attacks) before it even fired a shot. The soviet commissar has this too, but soviet stock infantry isn't the same as upgraded pfusiliers tbh
5 Aug 2021, 22:34 PM
#15
avatar of humf

Posts: 6



I'm talking about the tech upgrades. Ostheer pay for the tech once, regardless of whether or not the building gets destroyed - they don't have to tech again. Tech is tech, unit upgrades are upgrades not tech.


OST, USF, Brit can't lose tech once paid for.

OKW, Sov can.

Therefore I think the most sensible course of action is to put guns on top of all Soviet buildings and let them be built anywhere.

Special rifle command can just have a sniper rifle poking out the tent.
6 Aug 2021, 00:59 AM
#16
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 418

I am with you that it's extremely frustrating that the medic truck upgrade is required for the panzerfaust now. Even if the cost is the same, it's still a straight up nerf from when they added that upgrade because the faust still needs to wait for the upgrade time. Fausts coming even later for OKW felt like a very unnecessary nerf.
6 Aug 2021, 02:24 AM
#17
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3200 | Subs: 1


2. If trucks are all upgraded, then get destroyed - all the upgrades should not need to be purchased again. This is just silly, needs to be fixed ASAP.

Why is it silly? You can't directly compare it to other factions tech, OKWs tech is clearly different. There are other perks you get from placing it forward, which come with risks


This may not be a very noticeable in 1v1, however, in every game mode above that OKW are broken for these two reasons.

Not sure what you mean here. OKW is one of the best team game factions
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