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Sandstorms (AKA Sandtech)

24 Jul 2021, 03:57 AM
#1
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Greetings community,

I've got two words for you, weather elements. They need to return.

Introducing Sandtech in The North African front maps would be an excellent addition to give a player a taste of fighting in the desert. Randomly timed, sand events could reduce visibility and perhaps movement speed. Do you want a flank on that MG42 but don't have a smoke? Wait for the storm. Are you looking to launch a spearhead attack through the front lines? Wait for the storm.

It is time.

Rawr
24 Jul 2021, 04:05 AM
#2
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

I liked the weather effects in coh2, I want to see them again and improved upon
24 Jul 2021, 04:46 AM
#3
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1049

I'd like to second this motion.

24 Jul 2021, 04:47 AM
#4
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262

This is an excellent idea. Coldtech was an underappreciated feature of coh2 and I would love to see Sandtech in coh3. Please implement.
24 Jul 2021, 05:04 AM
#5
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

It would add an interesting element to larger maps with open areas. I could imagine instead of a timer the lighting would turn reddish to signal an incoming sandstorm.

It would also be an excellent opportunity to dust off prequel memes

24 Jul 2021, 10:52 AM
#6
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3545 | Subs: 2

Rawr
24 Jul 2021, 11:21 AM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Imo they won't ever return outside of special campaign mission because MUH COMPETITIVE NO RNG ENVIORNMENT notion that pushed the feature out of mp in coh2, don't count on elements removed here to return in 3.
24 Jul 2021, 11:59 AM
#8
avatar of Just Perfect

Posts: 11

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 11:21 AMKatitof
Imo they won't ever return outside of special campaign mission because MUH COMPETITIVE NO RNG ENVIORNMENT notion that pushed the feature out of mp in coh2, don't count on elements removed here to return in 3.

IIRC one of reason for the removal of the blizzard was also that some CPUs were having trouble.
Since this is a new game theres a small chance Relic might try that again assuming that sandstorms wont lag the system.
24 Jul 2021, 12:29 PM
#9
avatar of Wings0fred

Posts: 20

Honestly, I hated cold tech. I found it was rarely fun and, more likely than not, was frustrating and just slowed the pace of the game down.

It’s been such a long time so, maybe I’m misremembering…but I recall nothing but joy when it was removed.

Now, missions / SP, I would be fine with this type of stuff.
Pip
24 Jul 2021, 12:30 PM
#10
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 03:57 AMNapalm
Greetings community,

I've got two words for you, weather elements. They need to return.

Introducing Sandtech in The North African front maps would be an excellent addition to give a player a taste of fighting in the desert. Randomly timed, sand events could reduce visibility and perhaps movement speed. Do you want a flank on that MG42 but don't have a smoke? Wait for the storm. Are you looking to launch a spearhead attack through the front lines? Wait for the storm.

It is time.

Rawr


No thanks, Coldtech was an awful system, and "Sandtech" would similarly be terrible. I'd like far less RNG, not more.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 11:21 AMKatitof
Imo they won't ever return outside of special campaign mission because MUH COMPETITIVE NO RNG ENVIORNMENT notion that pushed the feature out of mp in coh2, don't count on elements removed here to return in 3.


RNG like this is bad and only very casual players enjoy it... and then not even they universally like getting randomly shafted by the game.
24 Jul 2021, 15:26 PM
#11
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 12:30 PMPip


No thanks, Coldtech was an awful system, and "Sandtech" would similarly be terrible. I'd like far less RNG, not more.



RNG like this is bad and only very casual players enjoy it... and then not even they universally like getting randomly shafted by the game.


Why do you think it's bad? Until OKW came along coldtech was not imbalanced, both sides had to deal with it. It creates random tactical variety, this is a game about war after all, learn to adapt and deal with a little adversity.

IMO Coldtech's biggest problem was whiny forum posters who got outplayed and had to find something to blame, however those people won't be satisfied until maps and factions are mirror images of each other with no charm or variety so they should have been ignored. Coldtech could have been refined and optimized but Relic chose to take the path of least resistance and I reckon coh2 is worse off without it.
24 Jul 2021, 20:00 PM
#12
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1049

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 11:21 AMKatitof
Imo they won't ever return outside of special campaign mission because MUH COMPETITIVE NO RNG ENVIORNMENT notion that pushed the feature out of mp in coh2, don't count on elements removed here to return in 3.

While you're pessimistic about this, I think there is an opportunity here for community members to impact the game to quite a great degree!


IIRC one of reason for the removal of the blizzard was also that some CPUs were having trouble.
Since this is a new game theres a small chance Relic might try that again assuming that sandstorms wont lag the system.

With more development time, I'm hoping that they can iron out the code and get it to work while not being too taxing.

Honestly, I hated cold tech. I found it was rarely fun and, more likely than not, was frustrating and just slowed the pace of the game down.
It’s been such a long time so, maybe I’m misremembering…but I recall nothing but joy when it was removed.
Now, missions / SP, I would be fine with this type of stuff.

If you want to see how cold tech plays you can watch a couple games here or here! It was a great time.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 12:30 PMPip


No thanks, Coldtech was an awful system, and "Sandtech" would similarly be terrible. I'd like far less RNG, not more.
RNG like this is bad and only very casual players enjoy it... and then not even they universally like getting randomly shafted by the game.


There are some ways that it could be changed to deal with a desert environment. Units wouldn't have to die from cold, but just have restricted vision and, perhaps in some part, a slight decrease in movement speed (like 10%). However, I resent the statement that only casual players enjoy cold tech. I was once not a casual player and rather enjoyed cold tech.




Another potential feature of sand storms would be to change the topography of desert maps. While in real life shifting desert dunes would take hours or days, we could see sandy parts of the battlefield undulate in different ways after a sandstorm. With coh3's hopefully good implementation of elevation mechanics this could change the way certain portions of a map play!
26 Jul 2021, 10:09 AM
#13
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2840 | Subs: 2

At the very least, something like this should be available for custom games. The blizzard idea, deep snow, mud etc were great but poorly executed. Instead of forcing you to switch to a different type of playstyle and giving your different tactics, they either took away half of what you could normally use or were just poorly communicated. If Relic as proper ideas, I'd be happy to have something like this in automatch. If it end up being tacked on like blizzard, then rather not.

It might be though that these events need a slow down of gameplay in general. It must be worth to invest time to properly prepare for those during the normal game, which is only possible if not every second is crucial. I doubt this will happen.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2021, 11:21 AMKatitof
Imo they won't ever return outside of special campaign mission because MUH COMPETITIVE NO RNG ENVIORNMENT notion that pushed the feature out of mp in coh2, don't count on elements removed here to return in 3.

The blizzard was poorly implemented though. Campfires were okay, but in the end blizzards mostly stopped infantry fights, especially in the early game. Transports were also poorly suited to counteract blizzards. In the end it just removed core mechanics without giving back.
27 Jul 2021, 14:07 PM
#14
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2306 | Subs: 4

Coldtech was an interesting idea but poorly implemented, and instead of tweaking it Relic decided to remove it outright.

For this to work there needs to be no RNG involved. Start the countdown timer at the beginning of the match so you know when the storm is coming and can prepare for it. With coldtech both sides just hunkered down and waited because there was no time to prepare any serious movements before all your troops started freezing to death.
28 Jul 2021, 00:49 AM
#15
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jul 2021, 14:07 PMTobis
Coldtech was an interesting idea but poorly implemented, and instead of tweaking it Relic decided to remove it outright.

For this to work there needs to be no RNG involved. Start the countdown timer at the beginning of the match so you know when the storm is coming and can prepare for it. With coldtech both sides just hunkered down and waited because there was no time to prepare any serious movements before all your troops started freezing to death.


This is true but eventually we had standardized timing 5-10-15 min iirc. Either way I think the most punishing thing of cold tech was troop freezing, with the release of OKW and their "winterization packages" that made them invulnerable is a good example of your first comment.


I think cold tech should come back with sand tech on certain maps, limit their impacts to global debuffs such as inaccuracy for sandstorms, decreased LOS, and maybe keep the need for troops to freeze or preform worse if not near a fire fully warm.
28 Jul 2021, 13:05 PM
#16
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

Big NOPE from me.

The blizzard tech turned the game from a fast paced rts into a boring stalemate with all players waiting for the storm to wear off.

There is a reason why it was deleted. So no need for sandstorms.
28 Jul 2021, 13:42 PM
#17
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1527 | Subs: 1

Coldtechs' impact on gameplay was negative and thus it was removed, however, a purely visual element like a sandstorm that didn't hinder gameplay could be interesting.
Pip
28 Jul 2021, 14:03 PM
#18
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 13:42 PMwuff
Coldtechs' impact on gameplay was negative and thus it was removed, however, a purely visual element like a sandstorm that didn't hinder gameplay could be interesting.


More (purely visual) weather effects would be pretty great, certainly. I'd love for there to be rain, sandstorms, etcetera on various maps, obviously so long as it doesnt impact gameplay.
28 Jul 2021, 16:25 PM
#19
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 177

I would like if Sandtech was implemented, but in a way where it didnt kill infantry

Like during a sandstorm, Plane based offmaps is disabled and vision is reduced, so Players have to resort to using flares and other means of vision to attempt to outwit eachother. No need for infantry dying from the weather alone.
28 Jul 2021, 16:30 PM
#20
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 519 | Subs: 1

Please god no, just make it a campaign gimmick
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